How to Create a Real Estate Investing Machine

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Hey, it’s Mike Hambright with flipnerd.com. Welcome back for another exciting VIP interview, where I interview successful real estate investing experts and entrepreneurs in our industry to help you learn and grow. Today I’m joined by my new friend, Justin Williams. He’s a high volume real estate investor and coach and he does a lot of things, but Justin has built a high volume successful business by focusing on building systems that allow him to have a company that doesn’t need his full time attention. It’s something we all aspire to have.
Justin is also as a fellow podcasters through his House Flipping HQ podcast, which I don’t know if I need to say this out loud, but right after we’re on here he’s going to interview me so we’re going to turn the tables a little bit. But you want to check out his podcast as well. Given that we all want to use real estate investing as a vehicle for both financial freedom and freedom in how we spend our time, today Justin is going to share his knowledge on the importance of systems so you can create truly a business and not a hobby that runs while you’re away or sleeping and doesn’t need your hands on attention every single day. Before we get started with Justin, let’s take a moment to recognize our featured sponsors.
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Hey, Justin. Welcome to the show.
Justin: What’s going on, Mike? How’s it going?
Mike: Good, good. It’s funny. I’ll tell a funny little story for folks that are listening and as you just joined a mastermind that I’ve been a part of for a little while now, a bunch of really good guys and I, but it’s funny you were scheduled to be on the show today. What was it? Like, what, Wednesday? We happen to be in an elevator together and you look at me and said, “Are you a real estate investor?” I was talking to somebody else and I was like, “Yeah.” We introduce ourselves and we’re like, “Hey, wait a minute. That’s Justin.” “Hey, that’s Mike.” It was so funny.
Justin: “Hey, we’re going to talk in a couple days.” It was pretty funny.
Mike: Yeah. Awesome, awesome. Well, hey, I think a lot of people that know you are super impressed with what you’ve created. There are so many real estate investors, especially those that are kind of like I refer to myself as a corporate refugee, I left the corporate world, I want to take control of my financial freedom. A lot of people are in the situation and then they get out and they end up creating another job for themselves or they’re just a slave. Now they work for themselves. They’re self-employed but the employed part is in all caps. They never get away from being a slave to something else.
Justin: You can be your own worst boss. The worse boss you ever had if you’re not careful.
Mike: Yeah, yeah. My boss never lets me get away. No, you’ve created some great things and I know you teach a lot of other people about it, but why don’t you tell us your background. Before we get into that, tell us kind of how you got into real estate investing.
Justin: Absolutely. So I’ve been doing this full-time for about eight years. Before that, I had a satellite dish business. Had $120,000 debt in that business. I was able to finally pay it off. Anyway, bottom line is it was it a lot of work, a lot of nightmares. I learned a lot of things but I tell people that just so they don’t think I was born from the womb with a golden spoon in my mouth, everything like that. I’ve been through the ringer.
So eight years ago, I went to my first real estate investing seminar. The guy offers a program for $15,000. Of course, I’m the first one in line to sign up. At the time, I never even fathomed that someone would, for only $ 15,000, teach me everything they knew about real estate. So I was all over it and I had the chance to win a new car. So I’m all in. I’m like, “This guy is going to teach me to be a millionaire and a new car? Of course.”
Mike: Too good to be true?
Justin: Too good to be true. So I got aboard. It was good. It didn’t take long to realize that this guy was pretty much an information marketer and hadn’t really done the business in six years. I still learned a lot, though. I surrounded myself with certain people that kind of took me to that next level. But I actually ended up winning the car, but this is where it’s really bad. He never sent it to me. So the rest of it, I was like, “Dude, he hasn’t done real estate for six years?” I kind of felt disappointed but like, “Whatever. I’m still doing the business, making money.”
Mike: Did everybody actually win the car?
Justin: No, I was only one. It was a big deal. A year later, we showed up, we presented our business plan, what we had done the whole year, basically helping him sell more coaching programs and everyone’s . . . I mean, there were three finalists. I spoke for about three hours. I gave two presentations. It was just right here in LA, actually. The first one was in Atlanta and the last one was here in LA.
Anyway, people are cheering for me. I got a big trophy, and I have a picture of him standing by the car. It’s a Chrysler 300, and he’s like, “Hey, I’m going to send it to you. I didn’t know who’s going to win so I had to wait to find out who was going to win. I didn’t want to send it.” One week turned to two. Anyway, I didn’t mean to go off on a tangent. It’s just kind of a funny story.
Mike: Yeah.
Justin: So that’s kind of how I got started. It took me seven months actually to close my first deal. Once again, I like to tell people that this is not a get rich quick, get rich overnight. That was with hard work. But I was doing short sales too. Keep that in mind. Short sales take quite a while. Then after that, I took a couple months to close another one. I started closing deals on almost a monthly basis, and that’s kind of how I got my start.
Mike: Yeah, yeah. What’s interesting is there are a ton of gurus out there. There are some good ones. There are some good guys who really know a lot. I’ve actually had several on my show that most people would consider a guru. After I got to know them, I’m like, “There are some people who say some bad things but this is a really good guy.” But there are also some of the other way out there. There are some people that don’t do what they say and mislead people. What’s interesting about you, though . . .
Justin: It’s like real estate investing. I mean, there are some dishonest real estate investors but it doesn’t mean that there aren’t good, ethical real estate investors. To say that all gurus or educators are bad is just ignorant.
Mike: Yeah, really. No doubt about it. But what’s interesting about you and is that what really helps you, even if you go by all that information, the reason a lot of people fail is they don’t have the motivation to kind of take control of their own lives, take the bull by the horns and say, “I didn’t get everything out of this but I’m going to make it happen anyway.” And so congrats on that. That’s fantastic.
Justin: You’ve got to have that relentless passion. I mean, nothing can get in your way. I can usually tell within five minutes if I’m talking to someone, if they have that or not.
Mike: Right.
Justin: I guess it can be learned. I’ve seen people transform and change, but you’ve got to be able to find that. You’ve got to be able to go to that place to get that.
Mike: Yeah. You’ve got to have the fortitude to just keep going because, like you said, this is a tough business. I mean, people know me as doing a lot of volume as well, but there are months that go by where we buy seven houses one month and zero houses the next month. It’s not all milk and honey. It’s a rollercoaster business.
Justin: Absolutely. I think I was telling you last week we had our record week. We got 12 houses in one week. Yeah, and a big part of that was the mastermind group that I went to. Earlier this year and then the last year, they were pretty slow. I was really having a hard time. If I go one week without buying a house, life is over. It’s horrible.
Mike: But you’ve got to keep pushing forward because that’s how this business is. It’s an emotional and financial rollercoaster.
Justin: It is absolutely, yeah.
Mike: Awesome. Well, talk about how you came to be. I mean, you’re known as a guy that puts in place a lot of systems, that’s really created something that a lot of people admire. But where did that come from? I mean, how did you decide that, “I need to put these things in place”? Because a lot of people, often they know what they need to do that but they get so caught up in the day-to-day that they just never get to it.
Justin: Yeah, a lot of people have a hard time letting go, and I’m actually quite the opposite. From a young age, I was figuring out how to get my little sisters to do my jobs for me. I would spend more time getting them to do my job than it would have taken me to do my jobs. Not creating these games with tickets and all this. It was just fun, but it’s a game to me. It’s fun and I enjoy it. I enjoy getting people to do stuff for me. So that’s kind of always been part of my mindset.
But my big shift where things really started happening, I was doing on average a deal a month or so. So my first three and a half years, I had done about 40 deals. In 2010, at the end of 2010, some things really changed my business. Before, I was doing wholesaling with short sales and then I started to get into rehab fix and flips in 2010. It was tough. At that time, I didn’t know how to comp properties. I didn’t have the MLS. I didn’t know how to really estimate repairs that well. I was like, “This business is tough.”
So the end of 2010, I was like, “Okay. I’m going to get into rentals. I’m going to do the whole “get out of the rat race and become financially free.” Within a four-month period, I bought 12 properties that were meant as rentals. I was cranking them. I was like, “Yes.” And then I went to go buy number 13, and I was out of money. My private money investors were out of money and sure, could I have taken the time to really go out and raise more funds and kept this thing going? Yeah, but I didn’t know how I was going to pay the rent the next month. I mean, it was bad. We didn’t have any money for anything.
I decided I had no choice but to sell the last four houses that I had as rentals. And something amazing happened from that. Out of those four properties, I was able to take care of my family’s needs for over a year, for at least a year. That was the first time that I had ever . . . because I had all the debt and all this other crazy stuff, and I won’t even get into the other things that have happened, fraud that was done in my other business. But that was the first time that I was like, “Wow, for an entire year, I’m financially free for at least for a year.”
So I’m okay. I like rentals. I’ve got 10 rentals. But I started thinking about, “Wow, I’ve read books like 4 Hour Workweek, The E-Myth,” and I thought, “Why can’t I do this every month?” You’ve got to ask that question, like why not? Successful people say, “This can be done. How do I need to do it?” So I just started putting together those systems and replacing myself and broke down every single part of the business.
I thought, “How can this be automated and systematized?” I did, and that year we did 60 houses, which was more than we had done the previous years combined. Turning that capital is a pretty amazing thing to me, and learning how to understand returns and velocity of capital and annualized returns, it was really cool. It got a lot of fun. In the next year, we did 120 and then we’ve kind of averaged 100 per year. My goal is I’d like to do 150 to 200 this year. I hope we can get there.
Mike: Yeah, that’s awesome. That’s awesome. I appreciate everything that you’ve built, and we’ve been very focused on building systems and things in our business for a long time too. For me personally, I had to share some personal experience with you. It seems like it always comes down to things fall through the cracks, things happen and I’ve always been that guy who has to pick up the mess or go clean it up next. And so I’ve kind of struggled with having that buffer between putting processes in place that work most of the time without me. That just happens. It works fine. But whenever there’s a problem, I’ve too often been the person in the middle that has to solve that problem now.
Justin: Yeah, for sure. So if it comes down to two things: systems and people. Because even systems will break. I create my machine but even the machine needs maintenance. A year or two ago, someone I really look up to, Mike Cantu, who’s in my local market, he came in heard me speak at a local REI. He’s like, “Justin, what you’re really good at is you’re good at hiring problem solvers. I need more problem solvers on my team.” My assistant was there and he just realized, “Wow, she helps him with a lot of these problems that come up.”
So problems do happen. It’s not like I have this perfect machine that operates completely smoothly and issues never happen. No, we buy problems. We want problems that we ask for. So I do try to create systems, but then I do hire and empower people who can help me with that system. For example, I don’t go look at houses. I don’t talk to contractors. I don’t talk to agents. My assistant, or I guess more my COO, my operating officer, she does all those things. Then she just contacts me when she has something bigger, like, “Let’s escalate it,” or something, which doesn’t happen too often.
Mike: Yeah. How about stuff like the financial stuff, like approving deals, sending money around, managing money, managing cash? I mean, have you outsourced that as well? Those are some things that historically, personally, we’ve been afraid to let go of.
Justin: Yeah. She manages just about all of that. She works with all my private moneylenders. She works with my hard moneylenders. Every once in a while, like last week when we put 12 houses under contract, I didn’t talk to her. “Hey, are we good?” She just has it all taken care of. I wrote this article a long time ago called “Five Tips to Creating A Five-Hour House Flipping Workweek.” Do you want to go through that real quick? I’ve actually added a couple more.
It’s kind of interesting. Last week at the mastermind meeting, I intentionally didn’t talk about too many of these details with the group because these are all guys that are doing 100, 200, 300 deals a year and making seven figures. I was like, “They probably don’t care about this stuff.” But it was funny because that’s all everybody was asking about afterward. It was, “How are you doing these houses out of state that you don’t go see? And how do you manage it all?” So I kind of put together this list of seven things.
So first off, most of the properties that I am currently doing are turnkey, but I guess turnkey means a lot of things. So for me, turnkey means we’re not working with the city. They’re not super duper high end or custom. They’re houses that all use the same color paint, the same carpet. It’s like a Ford with their cars. It’s like you can put it through an assembly line.
I’m not looking to get cute and fancy. I don’t really get emotionally attached to real estate or how pretty can I make this look. No, it’s a system. How boring can I make this? I’m not the creative guy, anything like that. That’s the first caveat. All these houses I’m buying kind of fall into that box. I’m not just talking paint and carpet. We’ll gut the entire thing. We’ll do everything. We just don’t want to do anything like customize it different. We want it to all be the same. That’s number one.
Number two is I let other people do all the legwork on acquisitions. Just prospecting for houses, if you want to do high volume, you’re going to need 100, 150 or more man-hours a week to really buy a high volume of properties. Maybe 200. I don’t know about you, but how many working hours do you have in a week? So if I’m the one doing all of that, I’m not going to get very far, especially if I’m trying to do everything else in my business. So I let everyone else do the legwork on acquisitions. They all know my criteria. They know what I’m looking for. I would say they don’t even bring a deal to me until it’s baked and ready to go, but it’s to the point where they don’t even bring a deal to my assistant until it’s baked and ready to go. And she’s very capable of approving those.
But I’d much rather work with very few people than a lot of people. I used to work with all these wholesalers and they sent me all this crap and it was a waste of time. If someone sends me a crappy deal I never talk to them again, basically. I just unsubscribe, don’t work them anymore. I work with the same main wholesalers, the same main agents and then I have two full-time in-house buyers. They know what I’m looking for. So it just kind of makes things a lot easier to not have to, every single time someone sends you a deal, have to know I like to make money on these houses. You know you can trust them and you’ve got your systems down. So let others do the legwork.
We have a rehab materials list, which basically we’ve already talked about that. Every house is basically, “Here’s the color paint. Here is the tile we use. Here is the laminate wood flooring we use. All the SKU numbers for everything we use at Home Depot for all the fixtures and everything.” So then our contractors know this is what we use. I’m cool with the contractor giving suggestions to change something up, and we’re always you know changing one or two things up here or there, but it’s all about systems. The last thing I need is a contractor going to Home Depot with a contractor and trying to pick things out. I mean, what a waste of time. Ain’t nobody got time for that.
Mike: Yeah.
Justin: This isn’t one of the tips I have down here, but I only work with general contractors, and the general contractors can typically do two, three, four or five projects at a time. In no way am I working with subcontractors. One point of contact. The less people I can work with the better. A rehab price list is something that I’ve never really seen anyone else do. But a long time ago, after starting to do a higher volume, I realized there’s a lot of groveling, a lot of negotiating, going back and forth. Sometimes we’re getting multiple bids, getting price creep, contractors raising their prices. But, at the end of the day, we’re paying about the same for everything.
So how can we get rid of all this nonsense up front so I can put a price list? Then I realized, “Okay. We’re paying about X for price per square foot for paint.” So if a house is 1500 square feet, back in the day we were paying $1 per square foot, it’s a little higher now, but to make numbers easy that would’ve been $1500 for that house. I say, “Okay. We’re paying you a dollar per square foot. If the house is 1600 square feet, I’m paying you $1600. If it’s 1200, I’m paying you $1200.”
We’ve done the same thing for everything. So that’s the price list. It helps us weed through contractors as well because we can call them up and say, “Hey, what do you charge for paint? What do you charge for this?” Actually, my assistant can do that and very easily see what we’re charging. There’s no price creep. We don’t get multiple bids. They can get going before they even send us their bid and we know where their bids going to be. It’s really made our life much easier. My assistant can easily go through and approve all the payments and then get them paid and everything. So that’s for that.
I got this as “put those agents to work.” So we really use our agents. Our agents help us do cash for keys. Our agents are kind of like our project manager. First off, when I help Jennifer hire the general contractor, my assistant has a very frank conversation with them saying, “This is your job. You need to do your job. If you want to work with us, we’ll keep you as busy as you can, but you’re a general contractor for a reason. We actually expect you to do the job from beginning to end and we expect you to finish on time. We expect you to clean up your mess.”
And if that doesn’t happen, we stay on top of them. But we do, as checks and balances, have our agent go and they’ll do a final walk-through on the property and they’re the ones who are going to list the property. They’re the ones who are going to take the pictures. I mean, they want it to sell. They do the final walk-through with that contractor. And then, after the inspection’s done, if there are things that need to be done, they’ll contact the contractor to get those items done. I just cut us out of it as much as we can.
When we were at the mastermind meeting, someone asked, “Well, how do you do it? One time recently, I went to this house and I was in the garage and there was all this stuff that wasn’t done.” I was like, “I never would have known.” He’s like, “You’re right.” At the end of the day, that would’ve been taken care of. Either I held my contractor to a higher standard . . . if they know you’re going to be there, checking on them, they’re not going to perform as well. If they know it’s up to them and then the agent knows it’s up to them, they’re going to get those things done. At the end of the day, if one thing falls through the cracks and is in inspection, I don’t care.
To me, all the houses are spreadsheets. That’s all they are. It’s a spreadsheet with what we paid for it, what we put into it and what we’re making, what’s our return going to be. I’m to the point where I’ll go through with my assistant, “Okay. Out of the 50 houses, what do I need to be aware of?” So I can just know that we’re doing well. At the end of the day, are we making money? That what I ask her every time. “Are we still making money? Okay. Good.” Put those agents to work.
Avoid the paperwork pileup. A long time ago, I got to the point where I’d be working on something, then I’d get something I need to sign, fax in and print off, sign, just this big mess. You have to go to get it notarized, all this crazy stuff. So I had worked with an attorney and authorized a couple key personnel on my team to be able to sign on behalf of the company. So they now sign for me. They’re able to get things notarized for me. I don’t really do any paperwork anymore. Very rarely. Every once in a while, I’ve got to do something. But avoid the paperwork pileup.
Number seven is kind of obvious, but hire and outsource all the busy work. I mean, there’s no way you’re going to catch me calling the utility company or taking care of the paperwork or getting insurance or just doing all this stuff that just takes forever. So letters and all that, you’ve just got to get rid of all that.
Mike: Is everybody kind of in-house, or do you use virtual assistants?
Justin: Yeah, everyone’s pretty much in-house. I mean, after going to the meeting, I’m learning more and more about virtual assistant. I had a couple of virtual assistants for my online business, which I’m not currently using. But we say in-house, though everyone is kind of virtual but we’re all here in Southern California. Actually, I just hired someone in Texas right where you are. So I don’t have people in the Philippines right now or anything like that, if that’s what you’re talking about.
Mike: Yeah. So it sounds like your assistant is obviously a very key player.
Justin: Very key. She runs the systems, basically.
Mike: Okay. One of the challenges that I’ve had historically is even when you find a really good person, as a small business, you usually can’t afford to have redundancy. So if something happens to that person, those key people, then things may fall back on me. As the owner, they probably will. Talk about how you kind of manage some of that and maybe talk about your assistant, not specifics, but just because it sounds like this person is much more than an assistant, secretarial type person.
Justin: She started out that way, though. I was just paying her $10, $11 an hour. She’s been with me for four years now, and I just looked for someone who used to be an agent because I didn’t want to train someone from total ground zero. Obviously, I wanted personal skills and ambition, all those things, but I thought, “Why not find one who knows how to use MLS, who knows how to fill out contracts and all that stuff?” So that was back when we were buying houses on the MLS, and I told her, I said, “Hey, I’m going to have you do you do things like utilities.” I gave her all the busy work at first. But then you always want to make sure you have something for them to do because you can’t create another job for yourself by hiring someone.
I said, “These are the things I want you to do. This is what I want you to do when you don’t have anything to do,” which was just make offers on houses. So I taught her my criteria, taught her what I was looking for, and just had her making offers. Then she’d be doing the utilities and the paperwork and then over time just kind of grew into it. She was working for me part-time at first. The first week was training, so it was 10 hours then it built into 15 and 20. She did 20 hours for me for six months. It went to 30 hours for another six months and then we went full-time after that.
It was this process, and I share that with people so they don’t feel like they have to hire this full-time mega-star right out of the gate. So yeah, now she’s to the point where she gets a small percentage of what I make, plus a guaranteed salary. It’s a big win-win. And she does whatever she has to do. She’s not 9:00 to 5:00 at all. She does whatever she needs to. She’s amazing.
Mike: Yeah, yeah. Awesome. Like you said, a lot of people hear this and they assume, “Well, it just got created overnight.” It took you time, iterations to get there. What do you recommend people kind of get started with outsourcing or systematizing things? Do they kind of prioritize what’s your biggest pain point and kind of go after that first?
Justin: Yeah, you want to start with the things that take the most time and are the easiest for someone else to do. So if you’re, for example, printing letters and you’re writing the addresses on the envelopes, you should not be doing that. Please stop. That’s not a good use of your time. And then utilities, stuff like that. You really don’t want to be doing that. But everyone’s business is different. Sometimes you’ve just got to write down what you do and the things that you do often that are duplicable, you’ve got to teach someone else to do that. It will take you longer upfront to teach them than it will for you just to do it yourself. But once again, look at it as a gain, depending on the action, of course. If someone’s just doing letters, you can have that going pretty quickly. It takes a day or so. But to have a really good assistant, in my opinion, takes about three months of you investing in them. It’s an investment of time and energy and it kind of takes more of your time than they actually give you in those first three months. You’ve got to keep that in mind. Once again, it’s like reading machine. If you can create a machine that can work for you, then it’s worth it. But you’ve got to put time and investment into that machine that can then give back to you for an infinite period of time.
Mike: Absolutely. Do you do much in terms of training systems, like recording videos, doing stuff so that whenever you have to replace somebody or if you bring somebody new on that somebody can effectively watch training videos, or do you find they have to recreate that each time?
Justin: Yeah. What I do now is I have my education program. So when I hire somebody new, especially for acquisitions, I just have them watch all of that to get trained. That’s been pretty huge. But let it happen organically as well. I’m a big fan of The E-Myth and when I had my satellite dish business, I read The E-Myth, which is cool. I’m glad I did. It taught me a lot, but the same time I kind of dropped everything I was doing and got so focused on creating this operations manual and these systems that I was going into debt while I was doing it. You know what I mean? It’s like at the end of the day, in the housing business, all that really matters is that you’re able to market for prospects and put deals under contract. If you can do that, everything else falls into place, really. My satellite business was all about getting sales. You want to create systems, but to me it’s like one Band-Aid at a time for a small business owner. It’s one thing if I’m going to go out and create a fund and have millions of dollars and have this huge business plan and partner. But that’s not what anybody I think that’s listening here is doing.
Mike: Awesome. So any words of wisdom on how people can kind of get started with transitioning from either getting started in real estate investing, which you did not that long ago, or from taking it from kind of that hobby phase where you’re doing a few deals here and there but aspire to take it to the next level, to kind of doing that with systems and some operating structure?
Justin: Yeah. Well, for getting started, I’m a big fan of failing fast. You’ve got to take action. You’ve got to take action where it counts. So if you’ve been educating yourself for a while and you kind of know what you’re doing, you’ve got to start at the beginning, which to me is trying to get a house under contract. Don’t worry about having the financing lined up. Don’t worry about having all the rehab systems taken care. Just get a house under contract, and if you’re able to do that then you can make money from that.
You can sell to someone like myself or the money will show up if . . . don’t get me wrong, you’ve still got to work for it. It’s not just going to magically show up. But I used to talk to investors all the time when I didn’t have any houses, and they didn’t take me seriously. But once you have a house that you can send them, and then they’re going to take you a lot more seriously. So focus on getting the deals if you’re new.
If you’ve been doing this a while and you’re ready to kind of take your business to the next level, you’ve just got to be open with knowing that there are people out there that can do it just as good or better than you. In fact, once they get trained they will do their little small part much better than you will. I don’t know about you, but I can’t hold 10 balls juggling in the air at the same time. They will drop. So don’t be so arrogant. You’ve got to know that other people can do it, and it comes down to what are you trying to create? Are you truly trying to create another job for yourself or a true business? You’ve just got to do it.
Mike: Well, Justin, if folks want to learn more about you and some of the stuff you’ve got going on, obviously you’ve got your podcast, tell us some ways that they can get a hold of you, or get in touch with you.
Justin: Yeah. You can go to houseflippinghq.com and the podcast and everything is on there or on iTunes. Or then go to houseflippingformula.com and I have a free video course that they can learn more about. It’s a house flipping fundamental course to get them started. Of course, you’re not going to learn absolutely everything there is in house flipping in four videos, but I try to give them a good bird’s eye view, a good overview, so they know what’s involved and they know where to go from there. But if they have any questions, they can always reach out to us by email too at [email protected].
Mike: Awesome. We’ll add all these links down below the video as well here. So, hey, my friend, thanks for your time today. Good to see you.
Justin: Awesome. You too, Mike. I really appreciate it.
Mike: Yeah. All right. Talk to you soon.
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