Most see real estate investing as a means to and end…and that end is usually a perceived improved lifestyle or improved freedoms. But many folks end up pushing off the benefits of investing until a later date. Ryan Daniel Moran tells us why this is a big mistake…and why you should be investing strategically to allow you the freedoms you seek right now. Too many invest so that “someday” they’ll reap the rewards after rental properties are paid off, or after you harvest that investment. But, what if someday never comes? What if you could start shaping how you invest now to build up the income you need so you can live the life you want to day? Don’t miss this great FlipNerd.com Flip Show to learn more!
Mike: Welcome to the FlipNerd.com podcast. This is your host, Mike Hambright. And on this show I will introduce you to VIPs in the real estate investing industry, as well as other interesting entrepreneurs whose stories and experience can help you take your business to the next level. We have three new shows each week, which are available in the iTunes store, or by visiting FlipNerd.com. So without further ado, let’s get started.
Hey, it’s Mike Hambright with FlipNerd.com. Welcome back for another exciting VIP interview, where I interview some of the most successful real estate investing experts, and entrepreneurs in our industry to help you learn and grow. Today I’m joined by Ryan Moran. I’m sorry. Do you want me to say, Ryan Daniel Moran?
Ryan: Go with the full name, Mike.
Mike: Okay. Cool. Today I’m joined by Ryan Daniel Moran. He is one of the most sought after thought leaders on entrepreneurship, and lifestyle design. And he’s most famous for generating extremely profitable businesses without compromising your lifestyle, and strategically investing the profits for passive cash flow. Ryan has an inspirational message to share. And I’m excited to have him on the show today. And today he’s going to talk about his Wealth Triad, which is a framework to help you achieve financial freedom. Before we get started though, let’s take a moment to recognize our featured sponsors.
Advertisement: RealtyMogul.com is an online market place for real estate investing, connecting borrowers and capital from accredited and institutional investors. Get a rehab loan fast and close in as little as 10 days. Rates start as low as 9%.
We’d also like to thank National Real Estate Insurance Group, the nation’s leading provider of insurance to the residential real estate investor market. From individual properties to large scale investors, National Real Estate Insurance Group is ready to serve you.
Please note, the views and opinions expressed by the individuals in this program do not necessarily reflect those of FlipNerd.com or any of its partners, advertisers or affiliates. Please consult professionals before making any investment or tax decisions as real estate investing can be risky.
Mike: Hey, Ryan. Welcome to the show.
Ryan: Hey, Mike. Thanks a bunch for having me on.
Mike: Yeah, yeah, excited to talk to you today. I mean, you have a message that is kind a universal in scope, that a lot of us that a real estate investors are looking to achieve something from a lifestyle perspective that’s better than what we have today for sure. So before we get started why don’t you tell us a little bit about yourself?
Ryan: Yeah, my first entrepreneurial effort goes all the way back to when I was 5 years old. I would draw hand drawn pictures on computer paper that my dad gave me, and go door to door selling them for a penny each. That business lasted about 24 hours. And I made about 4 cents profit.
Ryan: But my dad paid for all the computer paper, so it was a 100 percent profit.
Mike: There you go.
Ryan: Thank you very much.
Ryan: And I got in for no money down, we would say, Mike.
Ryan: And I’ve been an entrepreneur my whole life. When I was 9 years old, I found out what a stock was, and started researching the stock market. And I started an Internet business when I was 18, right out of high school. I had about a $1,000 that I got for graduation money that all my friends were buying guitar amps, and books, and stuff like that. I actually wanted to be a real estate investor. But I wanted some capital in order to feel safe. So I decided to start an Internet business. And that $1,000 turned into about $100,000 its first year. Second year, it turned in about a quarter million dollars.
Ryan: And today it has grown into a multimillion dollar businesses.
Mike: That’s awesome.
Ryan: So I make my money on the Internet. But then I invest it into real estate, and other passive cash flows. And we’ll talk about all those sources.
Mike: Yeah, yeah, that’s awesome. I know you have a number of different businesses that you run. And we tend to talk mostly about real estate investing here. It’s interesting, because I was talking to somebody this morning, right outside of my office here, about trying to size the market on real estate investors for something that we’re doing.
And it was like, well, how do you define a real estate investor? Because there’s so many people, I mean, literally there are probably a million plus people in America that have real estate as an investment, whether it’s a single rental house, or a couple rental houses. But they would never refer themselves as a real estate investor, but they are.
Sometimes we talk to people that are not active real estate investors. They just use it as a vehicle for investing kind of more passively. And they’re not in the trenches every day, which some days I wish I was doing more of that then being in the trenches every day. But there’s a lot of different flavors of real estate investing. Why don’t you share a little bit about why you use real estate as a vehicle for investing your profits from other businesses?
Ryan: Yeah, so I define it probably a little bit differently than you would, Mike. I define investing on something that you’re going to keep for a long period of time.
Ryan: That’s what investing is to me.
Ryan: I thing these short term, quick turn flip stuff, wholesaling flips, and that sort. I would consider that speculating. In the same way that I would buy Apple stock at a 100 bucks, and hope that it goes up to 200. That’s speculating. Now some people call it investing.
Ryan: I call it speculating.
Ryan: I think that the defining factor between what makes a real estate investor is somebody who’s in it for the cash flow.
Ryan: If you’re in it for the cash flow, I would consider that investing. The reason I get into any investment, real estate including, is for one reason, and it’s for the cash flow. But real estate specifically also have the depreciation, and it has the appreciation in value over time. But I’m not in it for the appreciation, or the tax depreciation. I’m in it for one reason, and that’s because it spits out cash flow while I’m holding onto it. I look at investing as a way to transfer money from one form into another, and to get paid for making that transfer. So I transfer a $100,000 from my bank account into a house. I haven’t lost that net worth. It’s probably gone up, because chances are I bought it for under market value.
Ryan: But it’s also paying me that rent every month to be transformed into that form.
Ryan: So that’s how I view investing. It’s my opinion that if you’re buying at one price, and selling for another, rather it’s wholesaling, or flipping, or whatever it is. They are in for a very different reason. I’m in Internet businesses, and they make a whole lot of money. But I’m not an Internet business investor. I am in the Internet business. I am speculating, if you will.
Ryan: I’m going to use my terminology. And that’s where I make my upfront cash that I live on. But I invest into real estate, and businesses through single family homes, and through stock market.
Mike: I gotcha. And that’s not all that different for a lot of other real estate investors that make their money by flipping houses, or wholesaling other things. And they use that money to keep some of the houses, and put it away.
Mike: They’re just more closely tied together, than what you just explained.
Mike: But, yeah, that’s great. So obviously you talk to a lot of people on lifestyle design. And a lot of real estate investors are in this business for one thing. Well, not necessarily one thing, but a few things. It’s basically freedom, it’s usually a combination of time, financially, and a lot of similar things. But a lot of folks end up, we talked about this a little bit beforehand. They end up creating a job for themselves.
And sometimes they say, I’m going to go flip houses. I’m going to wholesale. I’m going to do whatever. And then after I’ve done 20, I’m going to start keeping them as rentals. And when I can, and start to create that passive income. Unfortunately, a lot of people never get there, because they get caught in that hamsters wheel of doing deals.
But to have that type of lifestyle that you want, or that financial freedom that you want, you have to get to a point to where you’re building some passive income that allows you to still make money whether you take a day or a week off here, and there.
Ryan: Yeah, I think a lot of investors get into investing because their excited about the possibility of enjoying their life, of not clocking in somewhere. And what they find is that they end up clocking in even more then that were at their job. Looking at deals, and doing flips, and going to networking events.
Ryan: And whoever you’re connecting with is sapping you of time and energy. And they never get to the point where they’re actually free. I think the cause of that is not having a clear idea of what you want your life to look like once you reach the level that it is that you want. I call it, the space. The space is that gap between what you want your life to look like, and what you have created. And so many people have this idea of what they want their life to look like in their head. And they have the finances to get there at some point. But they haven’t filled the space.
Ryan: They haven’t filled the space with their actual lifestyle that they want to live. So they get caught in this idea of just working, and working, and growing, and growing their stuff rather than actually growing their experiences, and their lifestyle. So I always advise entrepreneurs when they’re starting an Internet business, or a real estate business, or whatever it is, to be very clear on what they want their lives to look like once they reach a certain level. And then it’s a lot easier to move your lifestyle in the direction that you want rather than getting caught in this idea of just one more deal, and then I’ll feel secure, because that continually alludes us.
Mike: Yeah, one of the challenges, I think, with real estate investing that’s unlike a lot of other businesses is, they’re bigger deals. So it tends to be this mentality of, you’re constantly a feast or famine situation. And if somebody didn’t have a lot of overhead, they could potentially do a few deals a year, and make a lot of money. But it’s that six months waiting for the next deal to happen that starts to lead you to believe that it’s a very inconstant business. It’s hard to plan.
And so even some people that do really well with real estate, it’s like they’ve lived through the depression before, and they ain’t ever going back. And so they just tend to squirrel stuff away to where they have, maybe a lot of reserves in their business. But they never let that influence their freedom, or their lifestyle that they want.
Ryan: The oldest part of our brain is the reptilian part of our brain that has no cognitive ability except how to stay safe, and how to stay secure, and how to stay alive. And that doesn’t go away. The idea of, I need more in order to feel safe. It never goes away. You can have a $100 million in the bank. And you will find a way to worry about what happens [inaudible 00:11:07]
Ryan: . . . $100 million in the bank. Most people I know worry more about money when they have a lot of it, then they did when they were dead ass broke. And they had $50 to their name. And they’re like, oh, I can go out to eat today. And then when you have a $1 million in the bank, it’s like, oh, I should save this $50.
I don’t know what happens in this shift, but there’s this fear of it all going away. And that mental noise just continues to get louder as you make more money. So, I say, let’s not try, and make it go away. Let’s not try, and make more money to make it go away. Let’s harness it in a way where we can actually control it. I had a little conversation with my mental demons, if you will. And said, okay, how much money do you actually need in order to feel safe? And I answer from today. Right? And write that down.
Ryan: Now, I know that when I’m going to get there, I’m going to want twice as much in there to really feel safe.
Ryan: Which is all an allusion. But I make the intention now, while this is what I want to feel safe. This is what I want in this account. This is what I want invested into this area. And I found that the best way to really clear those mental demons is to just have a consistent plan for building a passive income and to have a direction where your funds are going to go. For years I just saved as much as I could and felt more, and more insecure . . .
Ryan: . . . as I saved more and more. But the more that I invested it, and the more that I had followed a strategic plan, I boiled it down to what I called a Wealth Triad. I find the more that I invest in that sequence in something that works clearly for me, the more my mental demons quiet down even more.
Mike: Yeah, yeah, so talk a little more about your framework. I mean, how do people get started with taming their demons?
Ryan: I have a three part, what I called, a Wealth Triad, a strategy that I follow for financial freedom. And if you just imagine three box, and it’s got a flow chart between them. That first box is where you disconnect the idea that you are compensated for your time. We are not compensated for time, but we’re trained to be compensated for our time. We’re compensated for the value that we bring to the marketplace. Most people that are in real estate already know this.
Ryan: They know they are not compensated for their time. They’re compensated for the value of each deal, and what they bring to the marketplace. But as I said earlier, that idea of trading one property at one price, selling it for another. That fits into this category. That is where you’re generating new cash. So rather than working a job, we’re providing value in the market place, and we’re getting compensated for that. It’s wholesaling, doing flips, or whatever it is that brings you cash. If it’s not connected to your time, it’s connected to value. That’s your first piece of it. That’s your first step. And that’s where most people who are listing to this currently are.
Mike: Probably, yep.
Ryan: So that second point, that second part is taking the cash that is made in that first part of the triad and putting it into high yield, low risk investments. These are investments where your principle does not go down. You can assess it. And it spits a high yield return. I have three places where I can put these. For me, it’s single family houses, because where I invest, I can get a house from between 50 and 75,000. Put 5,000 into it. And get my golden rule of 1 percent return per month on that money. That’s my golden rule in this area of the triad, is 1 percent return on my money. So if I’m in a house for 70,000. I want to be profiting $700 a month after tax, insurance, paying my property manager, and all that. And I’m able to hit those numbers fairly easily. In fact, usually I’m at 1 point 4, 1 point 5 percent per month. As long as you can get that 1 percent per month, you are doing extremely well as far as long-term cash flow. So single family houses is the first place you can get that.
The second place is through real estate, and investment trusts. So if you just want to flip houses, take you cash, and put it into a place that’s going to give you a monthly cash flow. You don’t want to be a landlord. You don’t want to buy houses, and hold them. You can put them into real estate investment trusts. And just in case somebody doesn’t know what those are, those are publicly traded real estate companies. They’re health companies that have heath facilities.
Ryan: They are commercial properties with 1,000 of units of holdings in apartment buildings.
Ryan: And they pay out on average between the ones I like, about a 12, a 10 to 12 percent divided per year. And some pay their dividends out monthly. So my favorite is AGNC, it’s American capital group. And they spit out about a 1 percent dividend per month that comes right in. I just reinvest it right back into the stock. And there’s my 1 percent per month that fits this part of the triad.
The other ones I like are NLY, and TWO, like the number two. So those are some real estate investment trusts that I personally like. I’m invested in some of them. And then the third place you can invest for those types of returns are private business loans in a business that you are personally familiar with. For example, for most people who are listening, this would be funding other people’s flips.
Ryan: And getting a fixed amount return. I personally done this. I have a buddy who flips houses. I will loan him money. And we have an agreement that I get a 15 percent annualized return on anything that I loan him, which averages to about 1 percent per month.
Ryan: Which is perfect. It’s secured by the note. It’s secured by the real estate. So my money is just being transferred into another form. And I get that back in between 6, and 12 months. So my capital is protected.
Ryan: So that second triad for investing, after you’re making new cash, I’m putting it into high yield low risk investments. That spit out at least a 1 percent cash flow per month, on my original money.
Ryan: That third part of the triad is to take the money, now this part is optional. I know plenty of people who just want to have ten houses that profit 800 bucks a month, live on a 100 grand a year. And if that’s your goal, fine. You don’t need this next part. I’m young. I’m 27 years old. I’m investing for the long term. My lifelong dream is to own the Cleveland Indians. So I moved my cash into one more area.
Mike: You’re going to need more than ten houses.
Ryan: I’m going to need a lot more than ten house . . .
Ryan: . . . to own the Cleveland Indians, especially to turn them around into a championship team.
Ryan: But that third part is taking the cash that is made from that second part of the triad and putting that into a long-term dividend increasing stocks. Now there’s a difference between dividend, and paying stock, and dividend increasing stock. There are about a 100 companies the stock exchange, there might be more now, that have increased their dividend every year for at least 25 years. And their entire company strategy is to regularly, every year, incrementally increase the amount that they give to their investors on a percentage basis.
So my favorite of these, a classic example would be Target. Target is a company that trades at TGT. And they currently have about a 3 point 5 percent dividend at the time that we’re recording this conversation. 3 point 5 percent is like, whoop dee-doo. Who cares? I don’t bat an eye at 3 in a half percent. All right? I wake up in the morning for 3 in a half percent. It’s no big deal.
Ryan: But every year they’ve increased historically about 20 percent. So 3 in a half percent on your original money, 3 in a half percent become 3 point 8, become 4 point 4, become 5 point 1, becomes 6, becomes 7. And it starts to compound. It’s like compounding interest on steroids. Because of a 15 to 20 year period the numbers are just ridiculously insane on your original money.
Ryan: They don’t look like they’re going to grow that fast. Because as the stock goes up, they adjust the dividend to go up. So the stock goes up, the dividend goes up percentage wise on your original money, but not on the current stock price.
Mike: Right. Right. Right. I understand.
Ryan: So people don’t look at this as a high percentage yield. But if get in, and just let it sit there. Or you buy on a dip in the stock. Then your returns over a 10, 15 year period are 50 percent, and up . . .
Ryan: . . . on a yearly basis on your original money. So that’s my three part. We generate new cash, put it into high yield. You can stop there if that’s your goal. Or you can roll that into the third part, which is those ever increasing dividend paying stock. And that’s how you generate ridicules passive income over time, no matter where your new money is coming from.
Mike: Sure. Sure. So, Ryan, share a little bit about the goal setting, and the lifestyle design stand point. Because I think there’s a lot of people, and we talk a little bit about it before with the reptilian brain. Even if they have money, they’re not living the life that they want. They sit at home, because they don’t necessarily know what they want to do.
Mike: It’s probably more fear as well. There’s a lot of things, and I know you agree with this, and I do too. My wife, and I, and my family travel quite a bit. In fact, we just booked a trip. We’re going to Iceland for New Years. So it will really be kind of an unusual trip, but cool. And we have a 7 year old son. So we really appreciate experiences, giving him experiences that we never had, or whatever it might be. And we appreciate those experiences ourselves, too. And I’m not saying, hey, everybody, be like me. I mean, there’s a lot of things that I wish we did even more of.
But my point is, that there is a lot of people that work their whole life, save up a lot of money, build a lot of wealth, whatever it might be, or not. And they just don’t know what to do. They’re just kind a drifting. So what advice do you give people to kind of basically take an inventory of what it is that you want to achieve, and experience so you know why you’re working, and why you’re investing.
Ryan: Yeah, we’re so trained to work hard. And we so forget actually how to enjoy the process, and enjoy life.
Mike: What you’re working for, yeah.
Ryan: If it’s okay with you, Mike, I would like to completely steal someone else idea . . .
Mike: Yeah, yeah.
Ryan: . . . to answer this question.
Mike: I’m a thief myself, so go ahead.
Ryan: I think the best person who has answered this question is Dan Sullivan. Dan Sullivan is an entrepreneur coach. He runs a company called, Strategic Coach. And the way that he answers this question is through a simple exercise that he calls the lifetime extender. And the lifetime extender goes like this. We’re going to back track by asking the question, how old are you going to be when you die? And some people would say, 75, 81, whatever it is. Okay. Why are you going to die at 81? You’re going to die at 81, because my dad died at 81. I’m going to die at 81, because historically that’s where my family dies. And some people get cancer, and die earlier.
Ryan: But I’m going to go 75, or whatever it is. Okay. Great. So we write that number down. Now let’s back track a little bit. When you’re 72, three years before you’re going to die. What is your life going to look like? And what type of shape are you going to be in? Most entrepreneurs will say, I’m going to be in really good shape. I’ll have good muscle tone, low body fat. I’ll be eating mostly Paleo diet. Okay. Great.
Now what is your social sphere going to look like? I’m going to be week connected to my community. I’ll have good relationship with my kids. Okay. Awesome. What does your financial health look like? My financial health is going to be great, because I’d flipped all these houses. And I have all these single family homes bringing in passive income. I have this Internet business. Okay. Great.
So if you’re 72. You have a great income. You’re in really good shape. And you’re well connected to your peers. What is the likely hood that you’re going to die in three years? They go, I guess not very good. I might even live longer. Okay. How long are you going to live now? Now I’m going to live to be 86. Great. We’ve been working together for five minutes, and we’ve extended your life by 11 years. Congratulations.
Ryan: So now with these extra years, what are we going to do with our life? And all of a sudden they go, wow. I had these extra years I never thought of before. If I had extra years with passive income, and good connections, and muscle tone, I guess what I would do is, and all of a sudden the things we actually want to do start to come out.
Ryan: So for me it’s, I’d be at every friggin’ Cleveland Indians baseball game with eye-black on my eye, and I’m 85 years old, and got a jersey on. And I’d be cheering my head off. That’s me in my lifetime extender. It’s giving back to community. It’s volunteering. So in those extra years, all of a sudden bonus time, as I like to call it. Is a really good indicator of what important to us.
Ryan: And when we are clear on what’s important to us, we can start to weave in, Okay. How do we now take those things that we have clearly identified that are important to us, and sort of weave them into our everyday existing life? Now a little weird thing happens when you do this. And that is, when you start to put toe things as your priority, somehow you make more money. I don’t know what it is. But when those things become your focus, money starts showing up. And I think it’s because you’re not trying to control it as much.
Ryan: Because when you’re happier, and when you’re actually enjoying yourself, you find more ways of being creative. Because deals and ideas, and how can I structure this that it makes more money, somehow just flows to us, rather than us sitting there trying to force it. Which is what so many entrepreneurs and investors do, is they try to force money to show up and they don’t realize that they contribute more value when they’re their full selves. So if you’re [inaudible 00:26:13]
Mike: Yeah, I think they also tend to . . .
Ryan: . . . capacity, money just shows up.
Mike: I think a lot of, certainly real estate investors and a lot of entrepreneurs also have a tendency to figure out a way to do everything themselves, or do so much more themselves. And the minute you start to say, I need help with something, because I need time to go do something that I love to do, or spend time with family, or travel, or whatever it is. Then you start to get those networking effects of, “Okay. Wow, I had this fear that I’m the guy that had to do everything, because this is my baby. But I brought somebody in. I found them. And they can actually door more.” We’re able to grow experimentally, or grow certainly faster that you could at your own rate; starts to open your eyes to the effects of having a team.
Ryan: I’ve also found that when you have your time fill up by things that you actually enjoy, you get the most important things done faster.
Mike: Sure, yeah.
Ryan: And they actually get accomplished. I found for whatever reason, I reserve 9:00 to 6:00 work day. That most important thing somehow gets kicked off for two days, whereas if I have an hour to do it, I get it done.
Ryan: So when you enjoy your life, you end up making more money.
Mike: Yeah, absolutely. Talk a little bit about one of the biggest problems that I think people have, which is what we just talked about here, is they have a tendency to push off enjoying their life, or their lifestyle to “I’ll get to it. I’ll get to it down the road,” instead of starting to try and weave that into their daily life. I think that’s the hardest part. Is people are like, “Okay. Let me just get through the end of the year, and then I’m going to start to do that. Or I know I need to lose some weight, but let’s talk about that on January 1st.” You know, whatever it is. But people have a tendency, especially entrepreneurs, have a tendency to push off that satisfaction that they need in their life till some later period, which never comes.
Ryan: Yeah. Well, I don’t know how to answer this except very woo-woo, and almost spiritual. And that is, that you’re going to die one day. So stop doing crap you hate, because you don’t have time for it.
Ryan: When you really get clear, and forgive me if this is out there for the audience. But when you really get clear on the fact that you’re going to die one day, you realize that you don’t have time to waste a minute doing anything you don’t really enjoy.
Ryan: And that’s what we’re all in this for in the first place. That’s why you started investing in real estate in the first place because you do not want to get to your deathbed, and say, if only I had done X. And the same way, you do not want to get to your deathbed, and say, “If only I had taken that trip. If only I had been present with my spouse. If only I had not flipped that deal, and played catch with my son.” Those are the things that you will regret on your deathbed.
Ryan: Not the deal. And the deal will show up probably faster, and more profitably if you make those other things a priority. So you’re going to die one day. Stop settling by doing things that you hate. You don’t have time for it.
Mike: Yeah, yeah. Awesome. It’s such a great message. Ryan, thanks for sharing today.
Ryan: Of course.
Mike: So tell us about your podcast. I know you are a fellow podcaster. And you preach more of your message there. Tell us about it.
Ryan: Yeah, I’ve got a podcast called, Freedom Fast Lane. It’s on iTunes. It’s one of the top business podcasts. And on Freedom Fast Lane we talk about entrepreneurship. And we talk a lot about investing. We also talk about personal development and having the right mindset for growing million dollar businesses. We sometimes bring on guests who represent that model. But it’s usually just me. And you can find that over on iTunes at the handle Freedom Fast Lane.
Mike: Awesome. We’ll add a link for that down below. Anything else you want to share with us today, Ryan?
Ryan: Oh, one thing I’ll do, Mike, is I want to set up a link with just some of the best of my show that I think will be relevant for FlipNerd. So I’ll take some of our investing podcasts, and some of the best of it. And I think it will be relevant for other investors, and people who listen to FlipNerd. So I’m going to put that up at freedomfastlane.com/FlipNerd.
Ryan: And it’ll just have a link to a best of specifically for the audience from FlipNerd.
Mike: That’s fantastic. Well, we’ll have links for all that down below the video here. So thanks again for your time today. Appreciate you sharing your messages. One that is really universal for real estate investors, and really all people. But a lot of entrepreneurs need to hear it maybe more than anybody because we get caught up in working so hard for something that sometimes we haven’t defined. Or we found a way to push off for far too long.
Ryan: Cool. Thanks so much for having me on, Mike.
Mike: Yeah, yeah, have a great day, my friend.
Thanks for joining us today on FlipNerd.com podcast. To listen to more of our shows, and hear from incredible guests, please access all of our podcasts in the iTunes store. You can also watch the video versions of our shows by visiting us at FlipNerd.com.