There’s a ton of pent up interest in owning rental properties, but many do it all wrong…or get in without understanding some critical parts of the business. Today, Tim Herriage shares some great tips and advice with us on how to build a successful rental portfolio. There are a lot of things to consider…many not so ‘sexy’ things, which are critical to your performance. It’s a great episode…don’t miss it! Only on FlipNerd.com.
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Now, let’s get started with today’s show.
Hey, it’s Mike Hambright, FlipNerd.com. Welcome back for another exciting VIP interview where we interview some of the most successful real estate investing experts and entrepreneurs in our industry to help you learn and grow. Today I’m joined by my good friend, Tim Herriage. Tim wears a lot of hats. A lot of you know he’s a fellow HomeVestors franchisee. He was the founder of the REI expo, and now he’s the managing director of B2R Finance, America’s buy to rent lender. B2R actually happens to be one of our national sponsors. So Tim has a lot of experience buying and selling houses, and obviously B2R is very interested in the rental side of rental properties. There’s lot of interest in rental properties.
Today we’re going to discuss how to build a solid cash flowing rental portfolio, and while at B2R, Tim has looked at and they’ve analyze portfolios of thousands and thousands of properties. So he’s going to have some great information to share. So we’re going to talk about how to build a solid cash flowing rental portfolio. Before we get started though, take a moment to recognize our featured sponsors.
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Please note, the views and opinions expressed by the individuals in this program do not necessarily reflect those of FlipNerd.com or any of its partners, advertisers or affiliates. Please consult professionals before making any investment or tax decisions as real estate investing can be risky.
Now let’s start today’s show.
Tim, welcome to the show.
Tim: Hi, what’s going on bud?
Mike: Hey, there aren’t very many people I have on twice, so this is your second round.
Tim: Well, I pulled those strings, dude. You’ve known me too long.
Mike: Yeah, well, the first time we talked primarily about the expo and the importance of networking and things like that. And that was, gosh, that was probably almost a year ago. So a lot of people kind of ask me all the time, how do you keep having . . . we’ve done . . . I don’t know what your number is, Tim. People on the show will see it by the time this is airing but over a 170 shows in the past 13, 14 months.
Tim: I’ve been impressed, Mike. I mean, it takes a lot of commitment to do the amount of interviews that you’re putting out.
Mike: Yeah, well, it’s fun. It’s great. Like you, I’m a social guy. I’m a networking fool, and it’s been a lot of fun. So, hey, thanks for being back.
Tim: Yeah man.
Mike: So we were talking before the show about rental properties and we talked obviously a lot about it. I think we’ve had a lot of guess on the show that talked about retailing and wholesaling, and all sorts of other strategies. But you and I both know that most of us got in this for the ability to build long term wealth and to accumulate some rental properties because those are the ones that keep paying us after we stop working.
Tim: That’s right. I mean, you look at me and you we both . . . I guess if you added us up we’ve bought over 2,000 houses between the two of us. While that’s all fun, you have some big winners, you have some big losers. Nobody likes to talk about the losers but they’re there every now and then but that’s a widget business, right? I mean you buy it, you fix it, and you sell it. You’ve got to go buy, fix and sell another to keep making money. I think you and I both early in our careers realized that you’ve got to keep some. I always called it the “richest man in Babylon principle.” They say keep 10% of your earnings. I just like to keep 10% of my houses.
It starts slow and then builds big. It’s definitely the exit strategy of working. As you know, this is a business and if you’re fixing and flipping a lot, it becomes a full time business. You want to have an exit strategy out of your business. My rentals have always been the exit strategy.
Mike: Yeah, absolutely. What’s interesting is you’re more on the institutional side now at B2R but that you’re kind of bridging the gap to the individual investor where there’s a huge opportunity. If you listen to a lot, as you know, you listen to a lot of the institutional guys there, they refer to it as they kind of discovered some new asset class that it’s like you discovered a new continent on Earth or something. But the reality is a lot of people have known about it for a long time. They were just smaller, mom and pops and individuals versus institutional players, right?
Tim: Yeah, I mean it’s funny, you finally said it. You said, “mom and pop.” Right? Because everybody, it’s like if you read the newspaper, if you don’t own a thousand houses, you’re a mom and pop. When you look at the real numbers behind the industry, there are over 15 million single-family rentals out there owned by nearly 8 million people. So that alone tells you “mom and pop” are the mass market. That’s frankly why I’m at B2R.
We were the first ones really in the new institutional finance arena to reach out to the entrepreneurial type investors, the people that are frankly like you and I where when we got started, looking to build a retirement stream. Looking to build long-term wealth. Looking to have that exit strategy either out of their day job or out of their fixing and flipping business. It’s been fun to help all the customers that we’ve helped in the last year. There’s only up to go.
Mike: Yeah, and maybe you could spread some light on a couple of myths out there because there’s a ton of people that own one, two, three properties but there are really a lot of people out there that own dozens or hundreds or even thousands of properties and almost like their neighbor probably doesn’t even know that, right? There’s just a lot of kind of millionaire next-door type folks that own a lot of rentals and nobody knows it and they like it that way.
Tim: So the big chunk of the eight-point-something million of people that own rental properties is people that own only or two. That makes up for nearly 50% of the market on a unit basis. But if you look at the owner basis, seven million of the eight million actually only own one. Mike, and you’ve probably seen so much in your HomeVestors business too, a lot of times it starts off as they inherit mom’s house, or they inherit their aunt’s house or they go buy it because it’s down the street.
Then all of the sudden they kind of realize, “Oh, that’s kind of neat, I’m getting a check every month and it’s free and clear.” Then their CPA shows them, “Oh, wow you can write that off? That’s neat.” Then they start seeing the tax advantages, they end up in a real estate club or watching your podcast. They’re like, “Okay, how can I get my next one?” Frankly, that’s where a lot of the problems start because if you’re not a professional and you don’t have a big track record you really can’t go to a bank.
You can go Fannie and Freddy but just for frankly, the way that GSEs underwrite income and expense loads, it’s more of a credit base than a cash flow base. I think that’s been a big barrier of entry. That’s why if grew up across other countries, in Australia 25% of all the mortgages that are originated actually are backed by investment property. In UK it’s nearly 15%, in the US it’s like 6%. That’s why really of that 15 million units out there of residential rentals, more than half of them actually have zero of debt at all.
Mike: Wow. Yeah, that is definitely one problem with a lot of folks that we know that want rental properties. Even if they can get Fannie and Freddy money, they end up getting four or 10, or however many you talk to, whatever the laws are that year, and then they’re kind of maxed out. Where do I go now? Where do I get financing? That’s probably why there are so many other that are free and clear because they had to pay cash or use some kind of short term bridge loan to get there, and that’s where folks like B2R and stuff are coming into play now, right?
Tim: Yeah, it’s fun to really just talk to the customers and talk to the individual investors and hear the stories of why they’re buying these houses. It’s funny we had a guy in our office here in Charlotte today that has houses in Seattle, Charlotte, Houston, Dallas and somewhere else up in the Midwest. He lives in Seattle. I asked him, “Why not buy in Seattle? I mean you could save yourself a headache.” He said, “Well, you really can’t cash flow there and the houses, the house prices are so much and they don’t cash flow.”
He’s like, “Then I started looking around,” and he’s buying a 30-house package here in Charlotte. He’s got some private investors and I like to ask, “What are you going to do once you buy them? What’s your exit strategy?” So many people, I mean to tell you it’s got to be somewhere near 90%, have the strategy of buying a bunch, getting them paid down, selling whatever they need to sell to pay off the rest, like you and I were just talking about, Mike. Then owning them free and clear eventually so that they can cash flow. It’s like an index based annuity, right? I mean, rents go up with inflation, which taxes go up with inflation, so it covers your margin there and you can get that steady income.
Mike: But there’s no inflation in the US right now.
Tim: Oh no. You don’t need gas or food or any of that. Nobody up in the northeast needs heating oil.
Mike: Yeah, right. So talk about some of the lessons that you’ve learned, and maybe kind of give some advice to the people that are listening about kind of the power of owning rental properties. There’s going to be some people that listen to the show here that own a lot of rental properties but they struggle with some of these financing things we’re talking about. How do you get financing to make this make sense? But maybe share some lessons on the importance of proper financing. Let’s start there to have a good rental portfolio that cash flows.
Tim: I think number one is rate really doesn’t matter, which of course when you hear a lender say that you’re like, “Oh yeah, I’m sure it does matter, right?” But it doesn’t. Rate is a function of how much of the leverage do you want. Because if we’re trying to get 80% leverage, well then rate matters if it’s an amortized product. If you’re trying to just get a 50% loan to value, rate really doesn’t matter. I think what matters is what we’ve seen with the financing is do you have a flexibility to grow your portfolio the way you want to grow.
When we meet the cash flow investors, we meet the speculative investors that are looking to buy up the trough, wait for some home price appreciation and then sell and capture the capital gains as they’re the ordinary income by being a long-term investment. You meet people that trade between in two. So the interesting thing is one of the problem is . . . Let’s just talk about the problems with existing financing.
As you know with the bank, we probably used the same banks in Dallas. But if you were to go down to Houston, you probably can’t use that same bank. Or if you wanted to go to Kansas City because you know JD [Asbell] up there, you’ve got to go meet his bank, try to sell them on your business plan. So that’s just not scalable. Not anything about scale, right? Because I don’t use . . .
Mike: A lot of these banks you’re talking about, though, they’re relationship based. That’s why I have a relationship with my guys here but in Kansas City, they don’t know me from Adam.
Tim: Right. And they get in and out of the market. It’s really hard to figure out if they’re going to lend, when they’re going to lend and so it’s not dependable. So I think that’s why I say rate doesn’t matter. To me, what matters is you’ve got to have a financing partner that you feel like when you pay cash, you take hard money or you use a lot of credit to buy and rehab a house that they’re going to be there for you when you’re ready to cash out, right?
So I think there are a lot of people that are creative. I mean, I’ve watched a lot of your podcast. There are ways that people raise private money, borrow from someone’s IRA and all of this other stuff, but if you don’t have that dependable takeout financing to repay the debt or pay your credit cards back . . . I don’t know about you Mike, the first house my wife and I bought was actually on credit cards. We went down and made a bunch of cash advances and went and paid cash. But you can really do that for rental property if you know how you’re going to pay that back. So I think the most important thing is financing your rental portfolio. You’ve just got to feel like your lender is going to be there for you.
Tim: Right, they’re not going to change the game in the middle of the road and leave you high and dry.
Mike: Yeah, and traditionally one of the other challenges people have is they may have a line of credit but it’s never big enough to kind of help meet their goals. A lot of it is smaller community banks. They have maximums on what they can lend and just by definition when they’re smaller community banks their limits usually aren’t all that high, right?
Tim: Right, and specially if you’re relatively new or unseasoned, then it gets smaller, right?
Tim: I mean, you could go into a bank in Dallas and probably get something completely different from the same bank than someone that is just six, seven months into the business.
Mike: But I couldn’t. In the beginning, nobody would talk to me.
Tim: That’s right. That’s why I used to joke around when we’re talking about HomeVestors franchisees. If you walk in and you tell the bank that you want to buy a rental property and they ask you why, you just need to get up and leave because that’s the wrong bank to talk to, right?
Mike: Sure, yeah.
Tim: If they don’t get why you want to buy it, you’ve got to go find a different loan officer, right? I think the other thing that we’ve learned is one of the number one things people are looking for is guidance. So check lists and best practices, and I think that’s why shows like this are great, because there’s just a wealth of free information, whether it’s by downloading the podcast or some of the things you’ve talked about that you’re going to do soon.
People are looking for information because what we learned is that they get bitten by the real estate bug. They want to get in and invest and own their own future, and I think that if you can provide some education . . . So some things people miss, property management. I think you’ve got a couple of shows on property management here recently.
Mike: Sure, yeah.
Tim: When I started rental property, I self-managed. Lord, it was a glorious day the day the last tenant moved out that had my cellphone number. I mean, did you self-manage when you started?
Mike: No, not at all. But we were more involved. We had a property manager but we seemed to get pulled in on everything and I kind of learned enough to know that we didn’t want to do that. We actually did manage. We had a small, multi-family out of state at one point that we sold of pretty quickly because we realized it’s just a nightmare. That’s not what we wanted to do. But same thing, we had people that had our cellphone numbers and come to you because the light bulb is out. It’s just crazy.
Tim: It’s always Friday at 7:00 when you’re sitting down to dinner with Lindsay.
Mike: Yeah. Hey, maybe you talk about some of those things, because a lot of people that are interested in rental properties, you and I both know, back to this education part, they hear the sexy part of it. “Oh, I can deduct depreciation for my taxes. I can shelter income. It cash flows. Someday I’m going to be paid off.”
But what they don’t think about and nobody, even people that are trying to sell their products, what they never talk about is you’re going to have fun managing that one. Or the property management part when a bank kind of pulls your line and says, “We’re going to take that money. Well, you’re going to have to refinance or either sell them or do something.” Talk about some of the nasty side that really never gets talked about.
Tim: Well, so I think the number one thing people miss is vacancy. If you have a seven-year plan, tenants don’t buy into that plan and say, “Okay, we’ll stay here for seven years until you sell the house, Mike.” On average, they move out every 1.8 years, I believe, is the number from the National Association of Realtors. Depending on the different neighborhoods, whether it’s a transient neighborhood. What we found is even if it’s a two-bedroom, one-bath, the vacancy is higher on that than a three-bedroom, two-bath. So it’s just when you’re looking at it, when you’re looking at the cash flow and does it meet your goals, I’d say that’s probably the number one thing that people don’t budget in is vacancy, lost rent over a two-year period.
The next would be maintenance because a lot of people, they even think that if they go in and they spend extra money on the initial rehab or if they buy a brand new home from a home builder that they won’t have the repair bills you have on a 1950s house than one completely renovated. While some of that is true, the example I always use to a customer when I’m talking about what we call capital expenditures, things that you’re going to spend no matter what, if you own a rent house in the state of Texas, the air conditioner . . . I mean, with about 99% certainly I can guarantee you you’re going to replace that condenser in a 10-year period.
Mike: Sure. Oh, yeah.
Tim: Even if it’s brand new because people that don’t own a home just don’t take care of it the way . . . well, frankly, I’d say that if you owned it, you should. You and I both know the ugly house business that even people that should don’t take care of things the way they should. So maintenance and repairs is another big thing people miss.
Mike: I think those things are so true, especially the make-ready cost when you lose a tenant. It’s not just the vacancy. Now that it’s vacant again, probably you’re going to have to go and do some work. I mean, we had a house that we totally rehabbed, spent $25,000 on the rehab. I mean, it was like a brand new house inside. We had a tenant there for four months and did $7,000 in damage. It took two months to evict them. Now that stuff sucks, right?
Tim: Yeah, if you’re not looking at that going in, when it happens it just makes you more likely to say, “Forget this. I’m not going to be a landlord, never mind. This doesn’t work. The guy that sold me this course or this house, or this book or that TV show I watched, they’re just a bunch of liars.” And the truth is it does work. You’ve just got to plan for things that are going to happen. It’s funny that that’s the example. It’s just like flipping our houses with our franchisees in HomeVestors. I always say the worst thing that can happen is for someone to have a big profit on their first house.
Tim: And the same thing holds true, the worst thing that can happen with a rent house is the first tenants stay for 12 months, gives you a 30-day notice. They move out and it’s only $500. You just clean the carpets and have the house cleaned. Because that does happen. It does happen sometimes. But there’s also the four-month, $7,000 example.
Which, frankly, Mike, is interesting because it’s a lot like if you really look at what Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac and the GSCs have done by stopping you at four or 10, they almost put most people in more of a position to fail. Because when you only have four houses, if one goes vacant, you’re at 25% vacancy on your income. If you’ve got 20 houses and one goes vacant, you don’t even notice it. You’re on 95% occupancy. You’ve got extra cash flow that’s paying for the rehab, that’s paying for the other mortgages. So what I say, and what I believe, is he quicker you’re able to cycle your capital and add more to the pool, the less you notice the problems.
Mike: Yeah, because you can weather the storm. I mean, for every house that you have somebody that tears it up and you have some turnover issues, you’ve got houses that somebody is there for four or five years who never asks for anything, rent’s on time like clockwork and it kind of offsets that, right?
Tim: Yeah, and then it just comes down to . . . it was like the number one, that’s why I think it’s great to have a property manager. I used the example like if you own stock in Walmart, that’s an investment. If Walmart was planning sell Tide for $3 a bottle and had to sell it for $2.75, they don’t call you about it as a shareholder. They just sell the Tide for what they need to sell it for.
Well, the same thing goes with the property manager, right? I mean, you and I actually use the same guy a lot of times. I mean, you don’t want the phone call about the light bulb. You don’t need the phone call about cleaning the carpet. You don’t need the phone call about, frankly, with the size of portfolio that I have now and you have now, you don’t need the phone call about the eviction, right? It’s just evict them, rehab it, get it re-leased, send me my monthly report.
Tim: I think when you really look at it, the best way for someone to be successful in this business is to build a well-balanced portfolio that cash flows as quick as possible because it’s going to mitigate your risk. Because then if you have two vacancies in the six-month time period and one’s the 7,000 and one’s the 500, I mean just by economies of scale, you’ve offset the damages that you’re going to have to pay as an investor.
Mike: Yeah. I don’t even know if I say it differently depending on who they are. I pretty much tell people that I don’t think they should ever manage their own properties because most of the people I’m talking to, they have an opportunity cost of doing something else with that time, right? A lot of the folks that you look at, do they tend to have a portfolio over a certain size and they get a property manager? Or are they more like they bring it in-house as they scale up?
Tim: It’s kind of funny, actually, the biggest portfolios that we see actually are more likely to have professional management. There’s a bit of an entrepreneurial spirit behind this, so people want to do it all themselves. One of our employees in B2R just bought his first rent house and he’s self-managing it. All the horror stories you hear about this regulation, that regulation are just completely avoidable if you just pay someone that’s a licensed professional to do the job for you. It’s kind of the same thing I say about everything, right? If you’re an attorney, you should spend your time being an attorney.
Tim: If you’re a professional property manager, you should spend your time being a property manager. If you’re a licensed general contractor, you should spend your time being a general contractor. So it’s like if you’re an attorney and you’re spending your weekend cleaning out a house and painting it, I don’t know. I mean, you can do that if it’s a bad market or you’re having a bad month. That’s one of the beautiful things about rent houses is you actually do have the opportunity to get in there and put some elbow grease behind the investment and it truly does save you money. But I don’t think it should be part of your business model if that’s not what you do for a living.
Mike: Yeah. In your example of an attorney, if they’re billing at $200 an hour or something, just work five billable hours on the weekend and have a property manager to take care of that for you. I think that’s the biggest thing that I see with people that own rental property, and really real estate investing across the board, is they don’t really consider their opportunity cost or what else they could be doing with their time, including enjoying their time with their family or doing anything else. I mean, what is that worth to you versus saving a few bucks to do it yourself?
Tim: Yeah, the other part of that, like you’re saying, is so true because also if you’re not involved in the blow by blow, if you don’t know every single thing that goes wrong and you just kind of get the high level summary, I feel like you’re less likely to be discouraged or to have any disenchantment with the opportunity. If you’re not like, “Oh my God, the paint costs three times as much,” it’s like, okay, but wait, that’s really only 90 extra dollars.”
If you’re not involved with that level then I think that you’re able to look at the big picture, which this is a big picture thing. That’s what I tell people all the time. I mean, if you’re buying rent houses, it’s a retirement account. It’s not flipping, right? If not invest now, profit next month. It is making an investment over three to five years and then you can look at it and it’ll be something significant. I think the example I use a lot is if you contribute to the 401K where you work, you don’t expect to live off that money next month. A rent house is the same thing.
Mike: Yeah. Maybe you can share some thoughts on . . . there are two really kind of major strategies that people focus on in terms of financing. The ones that want to keep their houses levered up as much as they can forever and generate more cash flow now or the strategy that I have, which as of having a financial background, this doesn’t seem to make a lot of sense on it’s face, but just getting the damn things paid off as quickly as I can. I mean those are kind of the two main strategies you see probably most people write. I want to get them paid off as quickly as I can or I don’t care if I ever pay them off because financing is so cheap that I just want to leverage it forever.
Tim: I think it would almost be like a financial advising exercise, right? When you look at which stock to buy, is it the high risk, high reward, which I would call maintaining a 70% leverage on a portfolio and not paying it down, or is it the low risk, low reward. I mean, your returns are not going to be as high if you pay them off, but there’s an end date. And I have the same strategy as you, Mike, right? Get leverage, sometimes realign your leverage specifically if there are opportunities out there.
Right now, inventory is kind of tight so we have a lot of customers that are coming to us, getting us teed up so that when they find the opportunities then they can refi, pull their money out and go reinvest. We have a lot of people, I think a lot of our customers are actually refinancing to payoff private lenders or hard money lenders or banks so that they can then go recycle back capital and then come back to us for another take out. It’s kind of a wash, rinse, repeat approach of freeing up other capital.
Mike: Yeah. Well, hey, Tim, we’ve only got a few minutes left here and we can probably talk all day about this. Sometimes we do, actually. Tell us for a few minutes about B2R, and thank you for the sponsorship of the show. I think it’s funny that . . . I don’t say this because we have relationship but I think that the type of product the B2R offers to people that want to own rental properties is probably the best product out there. For a lot of folks that aren’t familiar with it, they need to check it out. It’s one of those things where most people hit a wall with using their local banks or trying to use Fannie and Freddy type money, certainly a private money, you’re going to hit a wall at some point.
So I think that you guys are building a great product and the rates are great. I mean, the terms are really great and appealing to a lot of real estate investors. It wasn’t that long ago that you and I were being pitched by somebody of how 10% in one point make sense on rental properties and the term adjusted and it was a balloon every three years. They were talking about how great that was, and I thought that was nuts but obviously something much better has come along. But just take a few minutes and tell us about kind of B2R and what you guys are doing and how you’re benefiting property owners.
Tim: High level, and then I just encourage everyone that’s interested, even if you don’t have properties yet, go to FlipNerd.com/B2R, get the phone number, call us and you just talk to one of my account executives here in Charlotte to walk you through the program and how we can help you.
But high level, if it’s a single family, multi-family, condo, town home, duplex, two to four unit, basically if it’s a residential rental property that someone pays rent on to live there, except for you or your family, we’ll finance that property for you based off of the property’s cash flow, not your personal income. I joke around, if you’re actually doing this the right way as an individual investor, you should look at the brokest millionaire to the IRS list. So we don’t look at your tax return, right? Because you should be taking your interest reductions and your depreciation and every expensable item you can.
So we look at the cash flow of the property, the debt-surface coverage ratio, which is almost like a debt to income. So if the property is making $500 a month in cash flow after all the maintenance, management, repairs, taxes, insurance and any home owners associations, we’ll give you a loan where the payment is $400, right? Because your payment, if your principal interest is $400 and your net cash flow is $500, awesome, we know that you can pay us.
On our portfolio products, the loan amount is $300,000 the minimum. You have to have five leased units. So a deal that we did today was three duplexes in Oklahoma City. So that has six leased units, so it qualifies. They were $130-$140,000. They’re at $150,000 appraised value. So I think the loan amount is $350,000, and this investor had full cash outs. So he’d paid all cash for the houses. So he’s looking at . . . we do have some minimum FICOs. I mean you have to have a 660 or above. Or, if you don’t, you can go on a recourse and then that’s a whole different product. Loans up to 75 loan to value.
Cash out is allowed and encouraged after you’ve owned the property for 90 days. So after 90 days we just [Inaudible 00:33:25] appraised value of the home. We do full appraisals and then we’ll give you cash out based off of that. Right now, we’re only offering loans on the five units or more, the portfolio loan where it’s . . . and by the way, it’s in a company name. One other thing we didn’t talk about is Fannie and Freddy make you do it all on your personal name, which is asinine with regards to assets.
Mike: Yeah, then you feel like you’re being sneaky to go deed it over to another company.
Tim: Yes, so they’re all in the name of a corporation of your choosing, in an LLC preferably. It’s just a blanket mortgage. We’re very soon, most likely March/April, rolling back out our one home, one loan program. We tested that in forth quarter. One of the things about our company is we’re big on customer service and we’re big on under-promising and over-delivery. So we tested it, we’re readjusting internally, probably go through another beta round in March/April to be full bore on that by the summer.
We are close to offering lines of credit to investors that want to fix and flip or even buy in whole, or even what they call attempt to perm, a bridge to perm product. We’re going to continue to morph and move for the market because there’s . . . here are some quick stats. I know you’ve got to wrap up. Last year, there were 5.5 million residential sales. Of those 5.5 million residential sales, 1.1 million were investor transactions. So if you look at that at $130,000 per transaction, which was the average, that’s a $143 billion worth of real estate sales.
Tim: And 53% got financing, so that’s $74 billion.
Tim: So we know the market is huge, and we know that if we treat customers right, they’ll be customers for life. That’s our focus, and we’re going to continue to develop products to meet the demand because the demand is there. I am personally available for anyone if there are any concerns. It’s very high touch, as you know. I take pride on what I do. If someone has a problem with my company or questions they can’t get answered, they’re more than welcome to reach out to me direct. My email is on the website.
Mike: Awesome. Well, Tim, thanks for joining us today. For anybody interested, check out . . . we’ll have a link down below. To make it simple for you, FlipNerd.com/B2R, and there are some great products if you want to refinance your rentals or you’re looking to grow your rental properties, or even looking to cash out to buy more properties. Any of those things, so a lot of folks are really happy with B2R. Since I know Tim personally, I know that he takes this very seriously as he just said. So Tim, thanks again for joining us here, buddy.
Tim: Thanks, Mike, good to see you.
Mike: I’m sure I’ll see you soon, my friend.
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