Wholesaling – Real Estate Investing

Mike: This is the flipnerd.com Expert Real Estate Investing Show, the show for real estate investors, whether you’re a veteran or brand new. I’m your host Mike Hambright, and each week I bring you a new expert guest that will share their knowledge and lessons with you. If you’re excited about real estate investing, believe in personal responsibility, and taking control of your life and financial destiny, you’re in the right place.
This is episode number 362, and my guest today is my pal, Wayne Sheaffer. We’re talking all about wholesaling today and how Wayne went from getting fired from corporate America, just like me, to doing over 300 deals last year, most of which his team wholesaled. Now, even if you love rehabbing or buying and holding, wholesaling has a place in every investor’s business. And today we’re pulling back the curtain to talk how to get started, how to build your team, and how to build a business, not just a job. So let’s get started. Please help me welcome Wayne Sheaffer to the show.
Wayne, welcome to the show my friend.
Wayne: Great. Thanks, Mike. Thanks for having me.
Mike: Yeah, great to have you on. We’ve known each other for several years now. We talked about having you on the show, and glad that we finally got you here.
Wayne: Well, thanks for having me. Glad to be here.
Mike: Yeah, yeah. Well, hey, before we get started, I know you’ve got some great information to share on wholesaling. Why don’t you kind of tell us your background because I know you have been in real estate for a while. I know you changed your model several times and you’ve kind of really honed in on something that’s allowed you to do a lot of volume. And I know, personally, it has allowed you to kind of take your life back a little bit from maybe some of the harder days.
Not that it’s easy now, but I think when you’re in this business, you start to find your way, right? And just say, “Hey, what is . . . ” there’s a balance between “I can make a ton of money but my life is just not a life I want to live,” to having some more control over your life, but also having a successful business. So maybe you could just kind of share who you are, and a little bit of your background, maybe some of your iterations.
Wayne: Sure, sure. Well, my name’s Wayne Sheaffer. My geographical location is right outside of Chicago in Northwest Indiana where we have an office in Highland, Indiana. Married 27 years, just celebrated 27 years with my wife this year. Just a couple of weeks ago, we went to St. Pete in Florida and spent some time there. Have two girls, 21-year-old and 18-year-old and I love my family. We love doing things together. My oldest daughter’s adopted. We got her right from birth.
But my real estate story started back in 2004 when my boss showed up, I worked for Pitney Bowes at the IBM account and said, “Hey, we don’t need you anymore, go home. You can get unemployment, we won’t contest your unemployment but we don’t . . . ” and so my nice, little, safe, secure job that I thought would be there forever came abruptly to an end. I ended up thinking, I’ve always wanted to do real estate and driving home. I said, “That’s it. This is the push that I needed to get going on real estate.”
And really, just, immediately just dove right into real estate. Started out really as a buy and hold guy, bought a lot of houses. My model was I’d buy a house in Gary, Indiana, fix it up, rent it out, refinance it, and repeat that process over and over again, and built up a pretty good sized portfolio of houses in Gary, Indiana, 42 houses I had built up. And then the market crashed in 2008 which it only hurts you if you sell. But the property taxes actually in my local area, the annual property taxes went from like 900 a year to 3,900 a year and ended up taking away all of the cash flow as well.
And of course, doesn’t make any sense to continue in a business when you show up there and there’s no money. So anyhow, I ended up coming to a crash in 2008 with my rental properties. And I came back as a wholesaler. I went to work for a wholesaler for three and a half years and eventually split away from that wholesaler. And in April 26th of 2011, split away from this wholesaler and started wholesaling on my own, me and a couple other guys.
And to be ethical, we went 100 miles out, away from our geographical area here and started wholesaling down in Indianapolis. Down in southern Indiana, out in Fort Wayne, up in Rockford, and started spreading out 100 miles away. And then that’s sort of how, that’s my story. I started out as a buy and hold guy, didn’t go so good and ended up as a wholesaler, and I’m a big wholesaler fan.
Mike: Yeah. And it isn’t it funny when you, I don’t know exactly how you felt when you lost your job, because I’ve been fired before from a job that I thought I was untouchable and like kind of the golden boy, I was. But first, first I’m upset about it and it’s like in disbelief that could happen to me and like, any kind of truthfully, and I want to knock on all kinds of wood here because I haven’t . . . my family hasn’t had any health issues, we’ve been blessed in that regard.
But it just seems like every major kind of thing that’s impacting my life, whether it’s like break ups with girlfriends over the years or losing a job or whatever, it’s always come back with something better, like it’s opened new opportunities. And the reason I say that is not, most people are listening to this show, usually you’re not a part of you getting fired, like it just happens to you. But I say it more in the sense of getting rid of that fear of staying in a job that you don’t like or staying in something that you don’t like. I mean, you’d agree with that, right?
Wayne: Oh, yeah. No, I still remember that feeling I had driving home thinking, “What am I going to do?” Now looking back on it, I guess that was 13 years ago, and saying, “Man, why didn’t I do this sooner?” Like I had something to do with it.
Mike: Yeah, yeah. Well, let’s talk about . . .
Wayne: I wished it would’ve happened a lot sooner.
Mike: Sure, sure. So let’s talk about, I know we’re going to talk about wholesaling. Let’s talk about kind of why wholesaling because you did buy and hold. Sounds like you had some challenges there. I know Gary, Indiana is a tough market and I don’t want to get sidetracked here but I’d be interested in learning some time about how the property taxes got 4x, like how that happened, because, obviously, that would give any real estate investor an extreme haircut. But you’ve done buy and hold. You’ve done it all, obviously. I mean, I don’t know if you even count how many houses you’ve done, but you’ve done well over 1,000, right?
Wayne: Yeah, it’s nearing 1,600 right now over my career. Even just last year, we did 300 deals, 77% of the deals we did last year were wholesale deals, 8% were fix and flip, and 15% were rent to own where we put into our own buy and hold model.
Mike: Okay, Okay. So you’ve done everything and I think a lot of real estate investors, there’s this kind of, sometimes it’s not an accurate assessment but some times people assume, well, you start with wholesaling and then you kind of get into doing more rehabs, and you can buy and hold more things like that. But for the type of volume you’re doing, you are primarily still wholesaling. So tell us about that and answer the question of why wholesaling makes [inaudible 00:08:13].
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Answer the question why wholesaling makes [inaudible 00:09:06].
Wayne: Well, I’m glad you asked. And I’m very passionate about it. I love wholesaling. I consider it the ATM machine, my ATM machine. I mean, it’s a consistent, $162,000 a month comes into my company from wholesaling. And that’s nice to have that money coming in. And I just kind of consider it an ATM machine. Years ago, I heard a guy explain wholesaling as, he gave it an analogy with a taxi cab. He called it the concept was the money’s in the meter drop. And he said that, “Soon as you get in a taxi cab, you haven’t even gone anywhere and you already started out at $2.75 and the wheels haven’t even moved.”
So he actually was a taxi cab driver and he got into real estate, and he talked about how he learned if he stayed around town and did these short little runs, that he could make more money then his buddies. His buddies all wanted the big long airport runs where they could make $30, $40, and he learned he could make almost double that because of that little $2.75 every time somebody gets in. He wanted that first money, that quick money with very little return, with very little effort. He got $2.75 without even moving. And he taught that concept and I like it. I just love wholesaling and the concept of the money is in the meter drop.
And I consider wholesaling my ATM machine. The fix and flip, I consider that like killing an elephant. To kill an elephant, you’re going to eat real good for a short period of time but, then you got to go kill another elephant, that’s like fix and flipping. I don’t think that’s bad to add to a business. It is kind of nice to have a big payday. But I know fix and flippers that literally are starving between paydays. And it’s a struggle for them to make payroll, it’s a struggle for them to pay their bills, they get way behind and finally a house closes, they catch everything up. So I like, instead of saying, I’m not just a complete fix and flip business, I like the wholesale. The wholesale brings the money in that pays the bills.
For me, fix and flip is like the icing on the cake. It’s nice every once in a while to have, but I don’t have to have it to pay my bills. And I also consider the rent to owns. We have 72 rental properties, all rent to own properties, and that’s kind of nice from a passive income standpoint. But when you have rentals, your income is dependent upon your tenants paying you. And unless you’ve had a different experience than me, Mike, tenants are not the most reliable people on the face of the earth to pay their bills.
And so basically your pay day is very dependent upon your tenants paying you. And I don’t particularly like that. And I’ve gotten burned like that before where it’s like I was really counting on these people paying me. Well, to be honest with you, I’m at a point in my business overall, and we didn’t even start picking up rentals until we had a great cash, we were over $100,000 a month, consistent cash flow from our wholesale deals before I even jumped into start to buy rentals.
But I mean, I’m in a position right now, Mike, where if none of my tenants paid me, I’d still be able to make all my payments on my houses through my wholesale profits. That helps me to sleep good at night. And obviously there’s never a time where none of the tenants paid, and usually there’s a 5% or 10% problem property where you have problems with 5% or 10% of them. But for me, I like the comfort level that I can pay my bills with my wholesale profits regardless of whether my tenants paid or not.
Mike: Yeah, absolutely yeah. And so that comes with experience, right? I mean, I started wholesaling . . . actually, I’ve primarily been to rehab, but it is the hardest way to do the business for sure. And your cash flows are a roller coaster, like you said. But with maturity, with time, business maturity that is, with time, because I’m still very immature like outside of business. Just kidding.
But I don’t know if I’m kidding or not, kind of kidding. I do think that it’s great to look at wholesaling as a way to kind of operate your machine, to pay your bills, to do all those things. And then you cherry pick your rehabs, right? So that’s, because sometimes I don’t know how you pick . . . sometimes people rehab by default, like they couldn’t wholesale it. And that’s not good because if a wholesaler didn’t want to buy it from you, then you’re taking the most risk with your worst inventory.
But talk a little bit about how you, when you rehab, because you rehab a little bit, how you decide which ones you are going to do. Are you just cherry picking the ones that have the best opportunity or they’re in the best areas, or kind of how are you deciding to rehab?
Wayne: Yeah, it’s actually funny because what you’ve said is so true. I think we started out by default. We got stuck with some houses, say “Let’s fix them up,” and then like you said, you’re taking the most risk on your worst properties. And that does not usually end well. So yeah, we do more cherry pick now. And actually, the ones we like the best, ones that are just a quick little in and out rehabs. Pretty much if it’s over a $30,000 rehab, we’ll let someone else mess around with it. But if it’s a quick little rehab, we can rehab it and get it on the market pretty quick.
So it really comes down to how quickly can we get it rehabbed and on the market. And then also the time of year, because with us being near Chicago. When it gets cold, December, January, February, people aren’t real interested in buying. So that plays in a little bit. We don’t pick up a whole lot of houses in October to fix and flip. We like kind of getting them in the beginning of the summer and piling them up and selling a bunch. It sort of goes with the seasons a little bit for us as well.
Mike: Yeah, yeah. So talk a little bit about your end customer. So most, I wouldn’t say most, but traditional, when people think of traditional wholesaling, you think of building your buyers list, selling it to cash buyers that are going to fix and flip it or keep it as a rental. But yours is a little bit unique in that you sell a lot of stuff to, in a way, to where they ultimately become kind of turnkey properties or they’re buy and hold for other people, right? I mean, share your exit strategy a little bit, your typical exit strategy.
Wayne: Let me back up and tell you how we used to do it and how we do it now, if that’s okay.
Mike: That sounds great, yeah.
Wayne: Because I’m guessing that you’re going to have some new people, that are just getting into this, on your call, and maybe also some seasoned people. So I’ll talk about the transition for us. We just hit our six-year anniversary on April 26th, and we started out by getting the houses and of course we didn’t have a buyers list. A matter of fact, we had sold 500 houses before I even heard of a buyers list. I know it’s funny because I’ve heard people say, “You can’t sell houses if you don’t have a buyers list.” And I’m like, “You didn’t tell me that because I sold 500 houses before I even learned what a buyers list was.”
Now, a buyers list definitely makes things easier but honestly, Mike, in the beginning, we would get a deal under contract. And we’d just go stick out bandit signs, not one, but like eight, or nine, or ten per house. And we’d stick out bandit signs with the price that we want for the house because the price always attracts people. So we just go stick up a whole bunch of bandit signs and as people would call in, we would just sell the house.
It’s funny, I was at a mastermind, one time, and somebody says, “Hey,” they asked me a question. They said, “Hey, how many calls do you get every house?” And I said, “I don’t know, maybe 20, 20 phone calls.” “Well, how many people of those are cash buyers?” And I said, “Maybe 10 of them.” And then they said, “Well, how many of those 10 actually buy your house?” And I said, “Well, just one.” And then they may ask the magic question, I was so embarrassed. They said, “What do you do with the other nine?” And I was like, “Nothing.” And they’re like, “Okay, you need to build a buyers list.” And I was like, “Okay, okay, you’re right, you’re right.”
But honestly, sometimes it’s funny the answer is right under your nose and you don’t see it until someone points to it and says, “Hey, you’re making a dumb move here.” But I mean, we’re still selling houses like crazy but we weren’t doing it the most effective way. So then we started building a buyers list. So we transitioned to where we didn’t have a buyers list, we didn’t sell anything off the buyers list. We sold 100% of our houses from bandit signs to right now where we sell almost all of our houses, probably 90% of our houses through our buyers list.
But it didn’t start out that way, and anybody who says you have to have a buyers list to get into this business, that’s not true. You don’t have to. It’s certainly most effective, but you don’t have to have it. You can use bandit signs and other methods to build your buyers list along the way and sell houses until you can build up a pretty good buyer’s list, and then transition it to selling most your houses right to your buyers list.
Mike: Sure. And so I’m guessing in the early days or in the past when you wholesaled, you just sold to anybody that had money and you didn’t really care what they did with it or weren’t involved. And I know your model now, I know we could have an entire show on your model now, but right now you kind of have more of a full service kind of exit where you show people you can buy it, you could turn it into a rental property, here’s who can do the work for you. You kind of create almost a turnkey . . . the word turnkey is a broad term, right? But where you kind of lay out the puzzle pieces of, “Here’s how to put it together, and get a cash flow in a rental property.” Am I saying that right?
Wayne: Yeah. We definitely transition it. But to be honest with you, even in the early days, most of our buyers, and I would go to masterminds and tell people, that they assume that when you’re a wholesaler that you’re selling to investors. And I was like, “No, no, 70% of the people we’re I’m selling to is the guy down the street who can’t believe that he can buy this house for $39,900.” And so we were selling a lot to people who were going to live in the house, or buying it for their son or their daughter or their niece, or their nephew or some family member or they just couldn’t pass up that good of a deal.
So we’d sell it to the guy down the street because he’d see our bandit signs. But yeah, we have really transitioned into right now, we’re selling almost all to investors. We sell a ton of our houses to out-of-state investors that are buying it strictly for cash flow, and then we’re connecting all the dots for them. We’re selling . . . our wholesale business is selling them the house, we’re connecting them to the contractors that do all of our work. And we connect them to the property management company that manages all of our property. So we’re just connecting the dots for them and basically putting them on the same conveyor belt that we put our houses.
Mike: Yeah, and I think the great thing about that is, as you know, and hopefully the people who are listening to this will pick up on this opportunity is that more than ever before real estate is an investment class, like people are looking to buy real estate that traditionally, would just put their money in the stock market or buy an index fund or something else. They’re just getting, I think the stock market has done really well in recent years but I think everybody is scared to death of what could happen. And I don’t trust it at all anymore. And my undergrad is in financial investment so that’s kind of what I went to college for originally. My wife used to work on Wall Street.
So, I just think people like an investment that you can touch and feel. And I think guys like you and others have made real estate investing, investing in rental properties easier than it has been in the past. Particularly, if you are buying in a distant land, like if you’re a California investor . . . historically most people would have rental properties kind of closer to home or closer to where they are even if they’re not managing them. But more than ever before, I think people are kind of virtually investing in far off lands and they’re like, “Hey, if all the pieces are put together, why do I care where it’s at ultimately?”
So it’s a great opportunity and what I’m saying here is for people that are wholesaling this to kind of think of what . . . I used to wholesale stuff and even now when I wholesale stuff, I don’t really put a lot of thought into what the next person is going to do with it. I just try to price it in a way where somebody wants it, and it’s like they’ll figure it out. That’s whatever they want to do, that is their problem.
But ultimately, you could get more money for your deals if you can help kind of layout some bread crumbs of how to get there. Nobody’s buying real estate for the fact for real estate, they’re buying it for what it can do for them, right? So if you show people like here is how it can help you build wealth or here’s how you can build wealth over the long term with rentals. And you just need to put these four or five pieces together, then I think that’s a great model.
Wayne: Yeah, it is. You’re right.
Mike: Yeah, yeah. So let’s talk a little bit about one other thing that. So we both know some wholesalers that do a lot of volume like you do. And a lot of folks have come to realize that in order to scale my business and do this type of volume, I need to wholesale more or primarily wholesale. So it’s kind of counterintuitive to what a lot of people think, is like, well, after you do some wholesaling, then you move up to the big leagues, and then you’re rehabbing and some of this stuff we already talked about.
But then you get to a point to where you’re like, “Yeah, I might make more money rehabbing,” typically, but it’s hard to scale that, it’s hard to scale all those contractor relationships. It’s hard to scale raising enough cash to do all that. Every piece of the business is harder to scale because it involves more people and more capital, and all those more potential headaches. So that’s why some people like you that I know, and I’ve talked to you recently, have come back and said, “You know what? I just need to primarily wholesale because I can scale that much, much higher than I can a rehab business.”
So talk about like how you scaled your business and how you’ve structured your team to be able to enable that.
Wayne: Well, scaling involves bringing on people. And really, I actually look back on it and say, you know, we started with just me and two other guys in the basement of my house, and now we have 28 people. And I’m like, “How did that happen?” And really, it came down to just firing myself and bringing someone else in to take over. I mean, obviously you got to leverage other people’s time in order to scale. And someone made a statement early on. It helped me so much, and I believe it was at a mastermind. Someone said, “If you can find someone to do something 70% as well as you, you should delegate it.” And that helped me because I guess in mind, my brain, I needed someone that could do it 100% as good as me.
And what I have found over the years is if I can find somebody that could do it 70% as well as me, and it’s the right person, they don’t stay at 70%. Then they end up being like 150% as good as me because that was one of the things I did, it was the only thing they did. And they not only started at 70%, but they didn’t even just get 100% as good as me since they were able to focus on it full time. They got better than me at it. And that helped me to be willing to delegate things to other people. And you got to do that in order to scale, you got to leverage other people’s time.
And then you’ve got to track your numbers. You’ve got to track your numbers, you’ve got to know your numbers. You can’t manage what you don’t measure. And I don’t know how people make business decisions without knowing their numbers. I am a big numbers guy. I track my numbers, I’m weird, I come in on weekends and actually study my numbers. But it helps, I don’t know, numbers speak to me.
I mean, they tell me where to put additional . . . they tell me what’s working, what’s not working. They tell me where to maybe to move resources from this area to this area. Anyhow, it’s you got to know your numbers. You’ve got to leverage other people. You’ve got to know your numbers. And we brought in this EOS system and you really have to have a system of doing business.
I mean when you start getting a whole bunch of people, you got to . . . I remember going to a mastermind a few years ago and saying, “We’re growing so fast and I feel like I’m not managing our growth very well. I feel like our people are a little bit frustrated.” And someone said, “You got to implement EOS. You got to read retraction, you got to implement EOS.” And that’s what we did. And boy, was it ever so helpful to get us all marching in the same direction, to get us kind of on the same page.
So those were some keys that really helped is leveraging other people, knowing your numbers, and implementing EOS, were just total, total game changers along the way.
Mike: “Traction” is a great book and I’ll add a link down below the video here for those that want to check it out. So but talk about this. I think a lot of new real estate investors start, a lot of people who get into real estate investing, maybe a lot of people listening to this show right now, they’re on a shoestring budget. So they try to do everything as tight as possible and not necessarily try to do it that way, they have to do it that way, right? And so what happens is everything is on their back, so they get stuck doing everything. Chief Bottle Washer and CEO at the same time, right?
So there gets to this point in your business where you have to invest in your business, right? You have to say, “I’m going to bring on a partner, I’m going to bring on somebody else, and that’s going to cost me money,” right? And so maybe share your knowledge or your experience in that regard to help people make that decision. Because a lot of things that you’re talking about here, and a lot of success . . . we’ll say it this way, a lot of people want to become real estate investors for the chance at financial freedom and also freedom of your time, right? So you’re not just a slave to working all the time.
And most that “make it,” I would say, have done nothing more than create another job for themselves that their business can’t run without them if they’re gone for a day, let alone a week or two weeks, right? So the challenge is, is they haven’t really created a business. In order to create a business, you need to have more people in your business that can do some of the work for you, but there’s this kind of gap of going from self employed to “I have a business.” So talk to that person right now about how to bridge that gap.
Wayne: All right. Well, once again, I can just say what I did. When I started out in January 26th, 2011, it was me and two other guys. And the two other guys were 100% commission. I think it might be a little bit of a misnomer that you have to pay people. Now, they want to get paid but I had it set up to where they didn’t get paid until we deposited money in the bank. So I had no overhead. I was literally working out of the basement of my house. These other two guys who were working with me were 100% commission.
When we deposited the money in the bank, one of the guys got 10%, one of the guys got 30% of whatever we deposited in the bank. And then I got to keep the rest. Obviously, that transition . . . well then we actually added another 100% commission guy. And then we added another 100% commission. And then we ended up having five people that were 100% commission.
And really it wasn’t until, after we had had, I believe five of us . . . and I was pretty busy, I was doing all the closing coordinating, all the bookkeeping. I was doing all the admin stuff, and they were all out finding houses and selling them. And then I was kind of coordinating the whole thing. And then somebody says, “Man, you got to get away from all that admin work you’re doing.” So then after we already had five people in here and we were already doing five, ten deals a month, I finally had the guts to hire my first $10 hour employee. But you can find people that’ll work 100% commission.
Mike: Now, it sounds like for you those were primarily like what we call acquisitions people, right, or sales people, ultimately?
Wayne: Well, some were acquisitions and some were disposition people too. So they would sell them as well. So like I had a guy in Indianapolis, I had a guy in southern Indiana, I had a guy in Fort Wayne, I had a guy up in Rockford, that was their territory. And they were responsible for acquiring and selling in those geographical areas, and I would teach them how to do that. I had one acquisition guy . . . well, we had one that was doing all the paperwork and stuff in our office.
Mike: Yeah. So in terms of advice to those that are kind of getting started here, I would say that in my experience, is true with Wayne, you can find acquisitions people. A lot of the responsibilities in this business are either would fall under the administrative flag, there’s a whole bunch of administrative stuff you have to do. And then under some sort of sales, right? Either it’s acquisitions or dispositions.
And so the acquisitions and dispositions type people are sales people. So those are typical commission type jobs. So you can outsource that. And on the admin side, there’s some other more efficient ways to get started if your tight financially, with like virtual assistants and stuff like that. There’s a bunch of stuff. I’m big on VAs. I’ve used them for years. But there are some things that VAs just can’t do. And if they can’t do it and that’s your only administrative support, then it’s going to fall on you.
But yeah, that’s how you grow. What Wayne just said is you start to layer in sales people and then you start to layer in some administrative support. And you’re probably not going to be able to totally fire yourself from everything, but it enables you to grow, right? Because you can outsource some of the stuff that you don’t like or you’re not good at or you just don’t want to do, so that you can focus on growth. And that’s primarily what you did, Wayne, right? Was just figure out how to continue to grow the business, right?
Wayne: Yeah, that’s exactly right.
Mike: Yeah. Awesome, awesome. Well, any other advice you give to people that are just getting started in wholesaling?
Wayne: Once again, I could just go back to my experience. Being a buy and hold guy, I wasn’t very good at acquiring properties because I was buying all my properties from wholesalers. So what I did is I went to work for a wholesaler. I know not everybody would have that opportunity, but I can’t tell you how much I actually learned from going to work for a wholesaler or at least hiring a mentor or coach.
I had the privilege of actually going to work for a wholesaler and so I got to see the operation from the inside. All I can say is that was extremely, extremely helpful. You go to the progression is you know it can be done, and then you see, “Hey, I can do it.” And then there is a little bit of a gap there. But between seeing, “It can be done,” and seeing that, “Oh hey, I can do this.”
But anyhow, if you have it, I definitely am big on going to work for somebody that knows what they’re doing or hiring a coach or mentor who knows what they’re doing and can guide you through. If you go visit a foreign country, you can read a book about it. But man, I went to Egypt last year, and I was with somebody who had been there eight or nine times, and knew a lot of local people. And I don’t think I’d ever try that trip with out going with somebody who’s been there before. Reading a book about it, will not do the trick for me. We were surrounded by danger all the time, and I didn’t even realize we were in danger very much. The military escorted us everywhere. I guess I got the hint.
Anyhow, I just think that, if you’re going to enter this unknown arena, you ought to get as much help as you can because you could really make some big mistakes. And I just think you could avoid a lot of pitfalls if you hire someone who’s been down the road to help guide you through.
Mike: Yeah, absolutely. There’s a lot to be said for . . . I was talking to somebody about this yesterday. A lot of times when you . . . I think this isn’t a complicated business. It’s as complicated as we make it, right? But real estate is not rocket science, but there’s always, like that 10% of a deal or a situation or how do you grow. It’s like the little nuggets that really kind of make your business sing or allow you to move much faster than you ever could on your own, climb that learning curve a lot faster just to have access to somebody that can say, “No, here’s what we do there or here’s how we do this or here’s a way to make another two grand out of each deal just by doing it.”
Like I have some little nuggets that I’ve told people and they’re like, “Like I’ve been doing this for 10 years and I never even thought about that. That just changed everything.” Just little like hallway conversations but it’s that wisdom. And I learn stuff all the time from people too, right? So it’s just the wisdom of experience that can help if you’re looking to kind of grow your business or get started in business or whatever that makes a huge difference.
Wayne: So true, very true. So it’s not the big changes like you said too. It’s little tiny tweaks that make a huge difference.
Mike: Well, Wayne, if folks wanted to learn more about all the stuff that you’ve got going on or more of what you’re doing, where would they go?
Wayne: They would go to goodsuccess.com. We’re on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, iTunes, Google Play. www.goodsuccess.com.
Mike: Awesome. We’ll add a link down below. Thanks for joining us today.
Wayne: Great. Well, thanks for having me, Mike.
Mike: Yeah, awesome, great to see you. Everybody joining us, this is episode 362 with my friend Wayne Sheaffer. Hopefully you learned a few things here. We appreciate you. We’re going to keep shows coming your way. So we’ll see you on the next one. Have a great day.
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