Show Summary
Many fail in real estate investing, or have lackluster results because they focus on the ‘tip of the iceberg’. Are you willing to work a little harder than the next guy to reap rewards? Cris Chico, well respected for Virtual Wholesaling, joins us to talk about how to take advantage of low hanging fruit in your real estate investing, then takes a deep dive into how to take your business the the ‘next level’. Cris even shows samples of some of his direct mail pieces and process!
Highlights of this show
- Meet Cris Chico, Virtual Wholesaling legend.
- Learn how to take your business to the next level by working a little harder and smarter than the next guy.
- Cris shares some of his direct mail pieces, and how he uses them.
Resources and Links from this show:
Listen to the Audio Version of this Episode
FlipNerd Show Transcript:
Mike: Hey, everyone. It’s Mike Hambright with FlipNerd.com. Thanks for joining us for this episode of the Expert Interview show, where I interview leaders and entrepreneurs from across the real estate investing industry. If you’re new to the show, hey, welcome. We’re glad you’re here. And if you are an avid listener or a member of FlipNerd.com, welcome back. Either way we’re glad you’re here.
If you’re not a member of FlipNerd.com yet please go check it out. It’s pretty much the thing you could do to add the most value to your life today, is to go actually check out FlipNerd.com. Of course after watching this awesome episode 287 with my pal Cris Chico who is the Godfather of virtual wholesaling. I was going to call him the hitman. Cris, has anybody ever called you the hitman before?
Cris: The hitman, you know what, nobody has, but I would certainly welcome the transition because I think about Godfathers like old and decrepit. And so the hitman I think has a little bit more action to it. So we might have to work on that.
Mike: Yeah, we’ll have to check it out and see if some URLs are available, some license plates. But everybody, this is episode 287 with Cris Chico. Cris, how’s it going my friend?
Cris: Everything is great. I have had a massive . . . if you’re okay I’m drinking my coffee.
Mike: I’m double fisted over here.
Cris: I’ve had massive amounts of caffeine. I’ve popped a bunch of vitamins and brain pills and everything just to stay at the same level of you. I’m ready.
Mike: So you’re ready to expose it all, you’re hanging your brain out there.
Cris: What little is here I’m going to give it to you. Yeah, everything is great. I’d say we’re freezing. It’s South Florida and I walked out of the house and it was 60 degrees. I mean, I put a parka on. I put all these things on. I don’t know what we’re going to do, my blood freezes below 60. So I’m really concerned for my safety.
Mike: That’s funny. I’ll tell you, I moved here from Chicago to Dallas in 1999, I had a similar experience. You know in the Midwest for those who are listening in the Midwest, when it hits like 50 that’s like, “Hey, its shorts weather.” In Dallas that’s like earmuffs and fur coats.
Cris: Exactly. So I’m one of those guys.
Mike: Cris, Glad to have you back. You’ve been on the show a while back and for a lot of folks know you’re kind of a celebrity in the real estate investing industry, the Godfather of virtual wholesaling and a lot of folks have kind of jumped on the bandwagon. You’ve taught a lot of people things. But for maybe for those who don’t know you, maybe take a couple of minutes and tell us more about who you are.
Cris: I’m Cris Chico. I live in Hollywood, Florida with my wife who’s my high school sweetheart actually and my two daughters. And I used to be a realtor. I was really a horrible realtor. My branch manager always used to say that whenever I walked in to the office with a listing, he was shocked and he was like, “I can’t believe somebody gave you their biggest investment or their biggest asset and they gave it to you to list. God bless them.”
So then I was an REO agent, so that’s kind of how I got into the business. I had a guy that was buying most of my deals. He said, “Hey, why don’t you come work for me?” I worked for him for about a year, learned the ropes, they were buying a lot of REO properties. But I kind wanted to be on my own. But I didn’t like dealing with REOs because you kind of have to kiss some frogs and be nice to people and just kissing frogs [inaudible 00:03:26].
Mike: You don’t like to be nice to people is that what you’re saying?
Cris: Well, only to you, but everybody else I don’t. Then I figured I need to go and learn how to do marketing so I can get sellers to call me. I learned how to do direct response marketing and how to write advertisements that work.
And my kind of thing that I’m known for is direct mail because what happened is as I was getting into the business I saw that the most successful investors are doing direct mail. I was doing a bunch of different things and I said, “I’m just going to focus on one thing and try to make that work.” I focused on that, made it work, made direct mail work and so I just was doing a lot of deals using direct mail.
The market here in South Florida started to kind of get a little bit funny back before the bust. But I knew that other people were doing deals in other places and so through a lot of trial and error, I said “I want go and do deals in other places.” I actually went to Jacksonville, Florida. I did deals in San Antonio and then Dallas and then kind of through trial and error perfected a way to, “Hey, how can I do deals in other places when I’m here locally in South Florida?” And that’s how the process of virtual wholesaling started.
And when I first created my first course ever, was I simply took all the video tutorials that I had made for my virtual assistant and my staff and I just uploaded them to a website and said, “Here you go. This is what I have.” It was actually not even me thinking of conjuring up like, “Hey, I’m going to create this course and the system.” It was like here’s everything I’ve got and I’m just going to upload it and see if people want it and that’s how the whole thing started.
Mike: That’s awesome, it’s really been eye opening for me. I’m a real estate investor. I’ve primarily been in the Dallas, Texas market. We’ve bought hundreds of houses. And we’re part of a system that’s very kind of geographic focused. But it’s really, through the course of the show, again this is episode 287 interviewing you, meeting you and some other guys like Joe McCall and a lot of other folks. That’s really been an eye opener to how other people do things.
And I think it’s so much easier now today to do stuff virtually than it was even five or six years ago. Largely because a lot of systems. You can actually be somewhere, somebody could be showing you something on Skype.
Cris: Back in the day when I started, there was no Google Street View. I was putting an ad on Craigslist, getting a guy with a camera to go out there, pay him $25 to take pictures of the outside and the picture of the neighborhood so you can see what it was when I started. There’s a lot more tools available now. It’s a lot easier now.
Mike: They had to take a picture on a full size SD card and they had to get back to a computer and put that in there. I mean it’s not like, “I’m going to take it on my phone and send it to you right now.”
Cris: Exactly, they had to go to their computer and go on the internet, upload it and get it to me and then some of them didn’t know how to do that. The picture was too big and it was like . . . but now it’s so easy. Now you just type it in and you’re like, “Hey, look there’s a house, I bought it.”
Mike: Well, what was really interesting to me is that a lot of real estate investors, even where I’m at here now, this market is tough. But some people just say, “Well look, when the market gets tough, you either have to find a way to persevere.” Some people have said, “I’m going to another market. I’m just going to move around. I’m going to be virtual and as markets change, I’m going to move with them.”
Cris: Exactly and I think when that really comes in handy is we have a lot of clients where, like you wanted to be in California and you said, “Hey, I have a marketing budget of a $1000 a month.” I would say to you, you’re not going to get anywhere in California with a marketing budget of a $1000 a month. So it might be like hey, do you really want to do this and you might have to go virtual because based on your budget and what you can afford to spend, you’re never really going to get any traction in California.
Sometimes they’re circumstantial, sometimes it’s market based and so there’s a lot of variables. I always recommended people to start in the local market just because you can get a lay of the land and go see these houses. But sometimes depending on the situation it may be that virtual may be the best way to go.
Mike: Let’s talk a little bit about, we’re going to talk basically how some people operate which is going after the low hanging fruit. The second part of the show, the Taking Action part of the show, for those that are listening this is only the third show of the year and we’ve broken the show into two parts. We’ll get to know Cris a little better. We’re going to talk about how a lot of real estate investors operate and that is to just kind of going after the low hanging fruit.
Then, we’re going to break out into the Taking Action part which is talking in much more detail and Cris is going to give us some specific actions and tips you can take to really kind of take your business to the next level. And that is by being willing to work a little bit harder than the next guy to do more deals and make more money. In terms of this, a lot of the low hanging fruit that people go after are some of the obvious stuff. Cris, lets kind of dive into that.
Cris: Yeah, what I want to do is I just want to take a minute to kind of set the frame. I want to give everybody . . . we’re all kind of trying to do better and do better things etcetera, always kind of looking for answers to the questions we have. I always say that sometimes maybe it’s not that we don’t need answers, we just need a different perspective.
I always tell a story of, if you look up at the evening sky and you just see the evening sky and it just looks like the evening sky. And in the morning you think nothing of it. And then tomorrow you look at the evening sky but you’re looking at it with an astronomer and he tells you where the constellations are, what this is and what that is.
Every other day after that, every other evening after that, the evening sky will never be the same to you. Because now, you have a different perspective of it. It’s still the same sky, but now you see it differently. That’s what we’re trying to do here is give everybody a different perspective.
And the perspective is the fact that for most of us we do marketing, we are going after sellers and grabbing those sellers that we can buy a deal from and we’re doing the deals. And then we’re saying, “Hey, I want to do more deals.” So we go out and try to attack another niche or maybe try to look for other places we can find these sellers.
But yet, what most of us realize is that, it’s like an iceberg. If you think about the image of an iceberg where there’s a very small part of the iceberg up at the top of the water, but the majority of the iceberg is underneath. That’s how you have to think about things in terms of your leads.
The frame is that you have to think about when you do a mailing, you’re sending out to this vast group of people. As these people call in to you, now you’re establishing a secondary database of people that have responded. That almost becomes your [inaudible 00:10:05]. So most of us just take one or two deals out that particular set of group of people and go out and try to find more people to put in there. But we forget about this group of people here.
So the question is, how can we take and cultivate those people that just are not ready to do something with us just yet, that there’s not an opportunity there for us and how can we then take that and make money from it?
This is a real life example. We do deals in South Florida, that’s my primary market and so we have acquisitions people. And so we had this guy that left us and we had this group of leads that were a couple of hundred leads that were his that he worked on. We kind of just forgot about them. Through my files I’m like, “Oh crap, look at all these leads. I think they’re dead leads.” They were dead, they were marked dead.
So I got a VA to call from the Philippines and said, “Hey, I want you to just call these people. If you have somebody that says ‘Yeah, I still have a house for sale and I’m still interested,’ then take that deal, bring it over to this other side and we’ll work it and see what we can do.”
What I just described to you took and produced over $50,000 from a list of people that we thought were dead. We revived them and made over $50,000 in wholesale fees. I think it was close to $60,000. Where is it that you’re missing out on?
I have another example where we use 24 hour recorded messages and people call into that and say if you have a message that’s three minutes long, some people are going to call in a minute, 15 seconds and hang up, some people are going to go a minute, some people are going to go all the way through and leave a message.
Obviously it’s easy, we call the people that leave a message. But there’s people that will hang up, listen to a couple minutes and then they will hang up, because they didn’t feel comfortable. So a tip is we go ahead and tell our clients “Go ahead and have somebody in your staff call everybody that hangs up.” And recently we had a client in San Diego that went through that and picked up a deal that I think he made $47,000 off of that deal, from a person that just hung up the phone simply because they didn’t feel comfortable. A lot of those are in your database.
So what I want to share with you guys is one particular tip and strategy that I think has the biggest impact, because I can give you a bunch of them but what can you do right now to give you the biggest impact.
What I would say is that you talk to a lead today and let’s say that you talk to a lead and they want 80,000. You offer then 60. So they’re not going to sell for 80. Normally what you would do, the horrible investors do is they just say, “Okay, I’m not going to call them again. I’m going to just find more leads.”
But I know you guys don’t do that. So the next level would be you put a little reminder and say I’m going to give them a call in 30 days. People do that. Or maybe you might have them in your big list of people that you’re constantly mailing to and then you say they’re going to get a postcard from me in another 60 or 90 days.
What we do is a little bit different. What we do is, and this is what I encourage people to do is that we want to take and move ourselves to the front of the line. If you think about it, this is the front of the line meaning that when they first call in and this is the end of the line meaning when they sell you the property. What we want to do is we want to . . . how can we get them so that they’re more engaged with us than anybody else that’s around, circling around and trying to get them to sell the house?
And so the way we do that is by putting in front of them something that is more substantial that’s going to get them to take notice and for them to say, “Hey, this guys is serious or this girl is serious and everybody else has done XYZ. But I think I’m going to at least try with them.” What we do is every time we have a lead, that we’re at a point where we can’t seem to come together on price, we automatically send them what we call a presale package or like we send them an entire contract package.
And so what most investors do, most investors don’t send anything. Some investors will say, “I’m going to just send them a letter with a contract and just see what happens.” What we do is we send them a complete package that includes contracts that is in a particular type of envelope that includes marketing materials.
And so now when they get this thing, now we’re still calling them and following up with them. But now all of a sudden when their situation changes, when they realize that their tenant situation isn’t going to get any better and they’ve gotten a call from a couple of people, they’ve gotten some more postcards. But now they’ve got this thing that they got from us.
What happens is that they call us. Even if what we put in terms of a price and there’s a particular way of structuring the document and putting it together which we will cover, but even if the price is off, they’ll call us and they’ll say, “Listen, we did a deal in Dallas,” where the guy said to us, “Look, the tenant moved out and it’s a big . . .” I was going to use profanity and then I just stopped myself. [inaudible 00:15:27] you know what. And he said like, “Look, everybody else has sent us postcards, they’ve called us. But you’re the only one that’s sent us this.”
“We want to sell and we’re prepared to sign. We don’t like your price. Can you work it out with us and we will sign right now and we’ll send it back to you.” We got a deal like that, that we made like $17,000 in Dallas, Texas.
Mike: Stay out of Dallas, Cris, stay out of Dallas. That’s great. You kind of standout. You’re differentiated because in a sea of inventors there’s very few that even try to stand out.
Cris: Exactly and so then it’s just basically how do you elevate yourself and how do you get yourself to just a little bit further ahead in their mind and their perspective so they say, “You know what, out of all these people to talk to, let me talk to this person first.” So if you want we can kind of get into the specifics of what’s included in the package and how it all works in order to try to help those that are listening, how they can take this and implement this in their own business.
Mike: Absolutely. So Cris, time for Taking Action, are you ready to tell us how to take action and show us the way.
Cris: I am not only going to tell you, but I am going to show you.
Mike: You’re going to show us? Awesome. So for those that are watching the video instead of listening and if you’re listening then go watch it. But Cris is actually going to show us his documents. Awesome.
Cris: Show and tell, so what do we send to sellers. Number one is they’re going to get a letter that looks like this. Nice big Express mail with a nice eagle, Urgent. They’re probably thinking, “What’s going on? Publishers Clearing House.”
Mike: That has a 100% open rate.
Cris: Right, if you look at this who is not going to open that? They’re going to open that. So mind you this part of the presentation is really when the caffeine really is most effective because [inaudible 00:17:25]. Here’s what we have so we are going to go step-by-step what we include.
So this package here, and let me open it up. This is an actual package here, it is one, two, three, four, five, six, seven. Seven pages to begin with, and also I forgot to mention, I’ve got to talk about these, they go together. This is a, first they get a letter and I don’t know if you could see it but it says here, “This sheet of paper is worth 100” and in this example “is worth $115,000 for the next 30 days.”
Mike: Which is your offer price?
Cris: Whatever the offer price is, and basically it’s a letter that tells them. “Hey, we talked on the phone. I’m interested. Here’s what I’m willing to do and this is only valid for the next 30 days.” So they get that. Now the second thing is we include a little bit of marketing collateral. We tell them, “Hey, there’s two ways to sell a property, you can either sell it yourself and do all these things or you can sell it to us and just worry about getting a check at closing.”
Okay, the next thing is now we also give them a nice little benefit sheet that says here are the benefits you’ll experience when you sell your property to us and it basically says like for example, one thing here it says, “We will buy your property using cash or private fund so that you don’t have to wait for a bank to approve your loan. Guaranteeing a fast closing without delays.” Us, yes. The competition, lots of contingencies.” So we go through this list.
So then now the next thing is, now we include the contract. We give them two copies of the contract, one for them. One it says here “Please sign this and keep for your records” and has our agreement already signed by us with all the information, the price that we’re looking to offer. So they can sign this one and keep for their records. And then we have another one here that says, “Hey, go ahead and sign this one and you have two options. Either you can mail the agreement back to us or you can fax the agreement to us and it’s the same contract again signed by us and everything together.”
We also include a nice little return envelope so that it makes it easy for them. We’re going to try to eliminate . . . I always think of it this way. You always have got to make it easy for the customer. Sometimes if you’re dealing with an elderly seller and you’re telling them, “Hey, just scan the contract and send it back to me,” like that’s a whole ordeal because they’re like, “Oh, I’ve got to call my daughter or my son-in-law.”
Mike: Right. Sometimes you talk to people that, they don’t even have email, they went some place to fax it and it didn’t come through.
Cris: So we send them this. If you think about it, I’m a seller and I just opened this thing here, and it has all these things here. And then all you’ve done, like you Mr. Mike Hambright from Dallas, Texas in the same market I’m working in, you just call them and just say, “Hey, I want to buy your house.” “Okay, I’ll follow up with you next month to see how things are going.”
And then I send them this and I call you and I say, “Did you get my package?” And they say, “Yes, I got your package. But your price is not the price I want.” I said, “I understand, just keep it. Sometimes things change on my end, sometimes things change on your end. But you have it and maybe we could chat in 30 days and we’ll see what happens.” That my friend is now, it doesn’t just end there because then what happens . . .
Mike: There’s no way. But wait, there’s more.
Cris: But wait, there is more, that’s right. Then now and every 30 days after that they get one of these things and this is a little nice invitation style envelope, number one. Number two and as I say this I’m thinking to myself, I don’t think anybody else in your show does this show and tell. I have to say.
Mike: I don’t recall seeing a show and tell.
Cris: This here is a nice yellow letter. It basically says, the contract is sent at day zero. I talked to you day zero and in 15 days my CRM reminds me to call you, and say, “Hey, you got my thing,” or whatever. So then 30 days after this, you’re going to get this, and it says, “Hey, I sent you this and I’m still interested in buying, because I was supposed to buy two houses and I only bought one, and I need to buy another one, if you’re interested.”
And it says, really important, it says here, we put the verbiage on there that says, “If the price isn’t what you think, what you would like, we can kind of review it and see if it makes sense or if it doesn’t make sense we can make an adjustment.”
Then what happens is they get that. They get this. Then I get a reminder 15 days after this for me to call you and say, “Hey, Mike, its Cris,” and you’re like, now what happens is, this is very important, and I’m sure this has happened to you, you call a seller, the first time you talk to them.
Then you think you have a great conversation and then you say, “I’ll call you in 30 days.” You call them in 30 days, and you’re like, “Hey, this is Mike Hambright and they’re like, “Who?” And you’re like, “Mike, we talked about your house, about buying the house.” And they’re like, “I don’t really remember that, but go ahead anyway.” When I call them, they’re like, “Oh Cris, yes I remember the eagle and the letters, and the calls, and . . .”
Mike: The nickname, the hitman, they remember you because you’re the hitman.
Cris: They’re like, we’re on a first name basis, “Hey, this is Cris Chico,” and they’re like, “Cris, how are you doing?” “Everything is great.” “Yeah. I keep on getting your stuff, but I’m not ready just yet.” So question, to you and to everybody, if I’m competing against Mike in Dallas, which I’m not, because Mike told me to stay away from Dallas, Texas, he’s a friend and so I do that. I actually have to call him every time I take a flight to Dallas, because he wants to know my whereabouts.
Then if I’m in competition for a deal with Mike, all things being equal and he’s wanting the same price as I do, who do you think is going to have a better chance? Who at least is going to have a better conversation with the seller? So that’s what I’m talking about is, how can you take yourself and move you to the front of the line.
It doesn’t guarantee anything, because you’ve still ought to be a person, you’ve still got to talk to them and you’ve got to be a sales guy. You’ve got to close the deal and if they don’t like you because you’re a jerk, and you’re just like a really horrible person to speak with, not Mike, Mike is a great person to speak with.
Mike: I’m a great guy. Cris, and I know that the underlying point in all of this is, taking the business to the next level, taking those extra steps to stand out, to go above and beyond, even things like follow-up calling are critical. We bought a house recently that we made our first offer on 54 months earlier.
We just followed up literally, for 54 months, we followed up. I use virtual assistants too because I will never call somebody 54 times. Literally they hung up on me, hung up on me, hung up on me. But they never told us to stop calling, so we kept calling, numbers disconnected, [inaudible 00:25:06] to try again in 30 days.
You just kind of stay on there, and whenever we buy these houses after a long period of time, I always look at the history because there’s always a story to it of why they didn’t sell to us originally, and what happened, transpired during that time. And it’s really fascinating from a follow-up perspective, the stuff that you just presented is incredible, no doubt about it.
I think just the point in this whole thing is, stand out, like go above and beyond, take those extra steps. I know people that say, “Well, we’re not going to sell.” And they’re just done, like they don’t follow up with the lead, they forget about it and move on.
Cris: And all of a sudden, when you have a month, after you do this a while, and you have a month when you’ve closed 10 deals and you realize that, hey, two are new but all these other ones are from all these people that I’ve been staying in contact with, and I’ve been doing everything that I’ve been doing, the way I’ve been doing it.
That’s really how you take your business and grow it, because it is about starting from a particular point and growing it. And that’s the thing is, how can you take yourself and stand out, and put yourself in a position where now you have the opportunity to do a deal versus not doing a deal, right.
Mike: So Cris, for folks that like hearing this, give some other quick examples and ways they stand out. Or if you compare it to an iceberg like at the beginning, I think you did, to where some people are just focused on the tip of an iceberg, but there’s a whole bunch of opportunity below that, give some examples so people can truly get something out of this interview, and take it away and maybe do something with it. Just not in Dallas, Texas, please.
Cris: Yeah, not in Dallas, Texas. One of the things that’s really great about me is that, I have a knack for the obvious. Well, maybe not so obvious. I think of it in terms of everybody is always looking for, like some ninja, and maybe this is just a little bit ninja, just maybe. The thing I would say above and beyond everything else is to become, to make it your objective to become a professional sales person.
By that I mean that everything will just completely not work, if you don’t have the ability to build rapport with people, to put yourself in a dialogue with them where they feel . . . because at the end of the day, I always think of it this way, a seller picks up, I was looking for my phone, a seller talks to you, picks up the phone and they’ve talked to 10 investors. And they all think it’s the same. They don’t remember their names.
But what you want them to do is they get off the phone with you and they look at their spouse and they say, “That guy, that’s the guy. That’s the guy that’s going to buy our house.” And it’s nothing about what you say. It’s nothing about anything except that how you come across to them. It’s communication, they always say it’s 90% of how you say it.
I think that most people don’t . . . that to me would be something that I would spend a considerable amount of time doing, and trying to develop, and trying to get yourself, because think of it this way. The transition is that you’re doing is yourself. Then you transition to getting other people and your team to do these calls and to talk to the sellers, and that’s how you grow your business.
But you have to become a better sales person, and to me its not anything fancy. But if all you did is just be better on the phone and be persuasive and work on that, it’s almost like you’re not going to even spend any more money, you’re going to take whatever you’re doing right now and amplify it, because you’re just going to be that much better over the phone. And so for me I look at it as an 80/20, I don’t think enough people pay attention to that.
Mike: I agree.
Cris: And I’ve taken NOP before, classes and stuff like that, I’m always very particular about how people say things, and the way they come across everything else. To me that’s really important. The hang ups, anybody that hangs up and listens to more than 30 seconds . . . if you’re using a 24-hour recorded message, I would definitely get a virtual assistant to call those people and to talk to them.
And just ask a series of questions and see if it might be somebody that you might be interested in speaking with. And to me those would be the low hanging fruit, the things that you could go out there and implement rather quickly, and just amplify what you’re already doing.
Mike: Awesome. Cris, for those that want to learn more or maybe reach out to you, where should they go, what should they do?
Cris: They can go to my site. They can Google me, they can just Google me Cris Chico, and your first result is crischico.com. You could just come visit my site, and we’ve got a lot of information available and a lot of free material available for investors. And our objective is just to help people starting out, or experienced investors, we work with both.
Mike: Cris, if people want to see an example of that package you just showed us with the documents, is there a way to share that?
Cris: What I will do is, for you, what I could do is I will put that on my site, I will put it a directory that’s only for you, if you’re okay with that, I could give [inaudible 00:30:34].
Mike: Yeah, you could give me a link afterwards unless you know it now.
Cris: Crischico.com/flipnerd, if you’re okay with that, and what I’ll do is, I’ll put this stuff on there, and that way for those that want a copy of this, that way they could try to implement it in their business. I’d be more than happy to give that to them.
Mike: That would be awesome, not only show and tell, but come and get it, that’s awesome.
Cris: I know. Come and get it, show and tell but come and get it that’s awesome. I mean hey, you got to hold on, because I got a guy with a big rabbit suit, just come walking in the door any second, it’s for the big finale.
Mike: Hey my friend, I appreciate your time. Thank you for sharing those tips. For those of you that are listening it is truly all about taking action, and I’d say it’s so difficult, but one of the more difficult parts of this business is generating good leads.
And you’ve got to continue to work those things until they’re truly dead, not just didn’t sound like they were interested right now. They originally contacted you for a reason, and there was some pain there, and sometimes you just have to wait around until there is more pain.
Cris: They’re never dead until they’re dead. Even then there’s probate.
Mike: Cris, good to see you my friend.
Cris: All right buddy.
Mike: Appreciate your time today.
Cris: All right, take care.
Mike: All right, Bye-bye.
Are you a member of FlipNerd.com, the most robust real estate investing platform in existence where you can find off-market wholesale deals and great vendors, literally in your market? You can get access to advice from experts and learn about local clubs and events right in your backyard.
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If you’re not a member of FlipNerd.com yet please go check it out. It’s pretty much the thing you could do to add the most value to your life today, is to go actually check out FlipNerd.com. Of course after watching this awesome episode 287 with my pal Cris Chico who is the Godfather of virtual wholesaling. I was going to call him the hitman. Cris, has anybody ever called you the hitman before?
Cris: The hitman, you know what, nobody has, but I would certainly welcome the transition because I think about Godfathers like old and decrepit. And so the hitman I think has a little bit more action to it. So we might have to work on that.
Mike: Yeah, we’ll have to check it out and see if some URLs are available, some license plates. But everybody, this is episode 287 with Cris Chico. Cris, how’s it going my friend?
Cris: Everything is great. I have had a massive . . . if you’re okay I’m drinking my coffee.
Mike: I’m double fisted over here.
Cris: I’ve had massive amounts of caffeine. I’ve popped a bunch of vitamins and brain pills and everything just to stay at the same level of you. I’m ready.
Mike: So you’re ready to expose it all, you’re hanging your brain out there.
Cris: What little is here I’m going to give it to you. Yeah, everything is great. I’d say we’re freezing. It’s South Florida and I walked out of the house and it was 60 degrees. I mean, I put a parka on. I put all these things on. I don’t know what we’re going to do, my blood freezes below 60. So I’m really concerned for my safety.
Mike: That’s funny. I’ll tell you, I moved here from Chicago to Dallas in 1999, I had a similar experience. You know in the Midwest for those who are listening in the Midwest, when it hits like 50 that’s like, “Hey, its shorts weather.” In Dallas that’s like earmuffs and fur coats.
Cris: Exactly. So I’m one of those guys.
Mike: Cris, Glad to have you back. You’ve been on the show a while back and for a lot of folks know you’re kind of a celebrity in the real estate investing industry, the Godfather of virtual wholesaling and a lot of folks have kind of jumped on the bandwagon. You’ve taught a lot of people things. But for maybe for those who don’t know you, maybe take a couple of minutes and tell us more about who you are.
Cris: I’m Cris Chico. I live in Hollywood, Florida with my wife who’s my high school sweetheart actually and my two daughters. And I used to be a realtor. I was really a horrible realtor. My branch manager always used to say that whenever I walked in to the office with a listing, he was shocked and he was like, “I can’t believe somebody gave you their biggest investment or their biggest asset and they gave it to you to list. God bless them.”
So then I was an REO agent, so that’s kind of how I got into the business. I had a guy that was buying most of my deals. He said, “Hey, why don’t you come work for me?” I worked for him for about a year, learned the ropes, they were buying a lot of REO properties. But I kind wanted to be on my own. But I didn’t like dealing with REOs because you kind of have to kiss some frogs and be nice to people and just kissing frogs [inaudible 00:03:26].
Mike: You don’t like to be nice to people is that what you’re saying?
Cris: Well, only to you, but everybody else I don’t. Then I figured I need to go and learn how to do marketing so I can get sellers to call me. I learned how to do direct response marketing and how to write advertisements that work.
And my kind of thing that I’m known for is direct mail because what happened is as I was getting into the business I saw that the most successful investors are doing direct mail. I was doing a bunch of different things and I said, “I’m just going to focus on one thing and try to make that work.” I focused on that, made it work, made direct mail work and so I just was doing a lot of deals using direct mail.
The market here in South Florida started to kind of get a little bit funny back before the bust. But I knew that other people were doing deals in other places and so through a lot of trial and error, I said “I want go and do deals in other places.” I actually went to Jacksonville, Florida. I did deals in San Antonio and then Dallas and then kind of through trial and error perfected a way to, “Hey, how can I do deals in other places when I’m here locally in South Florida?” And that’s how the process of virtual wholesaling started.
And when I first created my first course ever, was I simply took all the video tutorials that I had made for my virtual assistant and my staff and I just uploaded them to a website and said, “Here you go. This is what I have.” It was actually not even me thinking of conjuring up like, “Hey, I’m going to create this course and the system.” It was like here’s everything I’ve got and I’m just going to upload it and see if people want it and that’s how the whole thing started.
Mike: That’s awesome, it’s really been eye opening for me. I’m a real estate investor. I’ve primarily been in the Dallas, Texas market. We’ve bought hundreds of houses. And we’re part of a system that’s very kind of geographic focused. But it’s really, through the course of the show, again this is episode 287 interviewing you, meeting you and some other guys like Joe McCall and a lot of other folks. That’s really been an eye opener to how other people do things.
And I think it’s so much easier now today to do stuff virtually than it was even five or six years ago. Largely because a lot of systems. You can actually be somewhere, somebody could be showing you something on Skype.
Cris: Back in the day when I started, there was no Google Street View. I was putting an ad on Craigslist, getting a guy with a camera to go out there, pay him $25 to take pictures of the outside and the picture of the neighborhood so you can see what it was when I started. There’s a lot more tools available now. It’s a lot easier now.
Mike: They had to take a picture on a full size SD card and they had to get back to a computer and put that in there. I mean it’s not like, “I’m going to take it on my phone and send it to you right now.”
Cris: Exactly, they had to go to their computer and go on the internet, upload it and get it to me and then some of them didn’t know how to do that. The picture was too big and it was like . . . but now it’s so easy. Now you just type it in and you’re like, “Hey, look there’s a house, I bought it.”
Mike: Well, what was really interesting to me is that a lot of real estate investors, even where I’m at here now, this market is tough. But some people just say, “Well look, when the market gets tough, you either have to find a way to persevere.” Some people have said, “I’m going to another market. I’m just going to move around. I’m going to be virtual and as markets change, I’m going to move with them.”
Cris: Exactly and I think when that really comes in handy is we have a lot of clients where, like you wanted to be in California and you said, “Hey, I have a marketing budget of a $1000 a month.” I would say to you, you’re not going to get anywhere in California with a marketing budget of a $1000 a month. So it might be like hey, do you really want to do this and you might have to go virtual because based on your budget and what you can afford to spend, you’re never really going to get any traction in California.
Sometimes they’re circumstantial, sometimes it’s market based and so there’s a lot of variables. I always recommended people to start in the local market just because you can get a lay of the land and go see these houses. But sometimes depending on the situation it may be that virtual may be the best way to go.
Mike: Let’s talk a little bit about, we’re going to talk basically how some people operate which is going after the low hanging fruit. The second part of the show, the Taking Action part of the show, for those that are listening this is only the third show of the year and we’ve broken the show into two parts. We’ll get to know Cris a little better. We’re going to talk about how a lot of real estate investors operate and that is to just kind of going after the low hanging fruit.
Then, we’re going to break out into the Taking Action part which is talking in much more detail and Cris is going to give us some specific actions and tips you can take to really kind of take your business to the next level. And that is by being willing to work a little bit harder than the next guy to do more deals and make more money. In terms of this, a lot of the low hanging fruit that people go after are some of the obvious stuff. Cris, lets kind of dive into that.
Cris: Yeah, what I want to do is I just want to take a minute to kind of set the frame. I want to give everybody . . . we’re all kind of trying to do better and do better things etcetera, always kind of looking for answers to the questions we have. I always say that sometimes maybe it’s not that we don’t need answers, we just need a different perspective.
I always tell a story of, if you look up at the evening sky and you just see the evening sky and it just looks like the evening sky. And in the morning you think nothing of it. And then tomorrow you look at the evening sky but you’re looking at it with an astronomer and he tells you where the constellations are, what this is and what that is.
Every other day after that, every other evening after that, the evening sky will never be the same to you. Because now, you have a different perspective of it. It’s still the same sky, but now you see it differently. That’s what we’re trying to do here is give everybody a different perspective.
And the perspective is the fact that for most of us we do marketing, we are going after sellers and grabbing those sellers that we can buy a deal from and we’re doing the deals. And then we’re saying, “Hey, I want to do more deals.” So we go out and try to attack another niche or maybe try to look for other places we can find these sellers.
But yet, what most of us realize is that, it’s like an iceberg. If you think about the image of an iceberg where there’s a very small part of the iceberg up at the top of the water, but the majority of the iceberg is underneath. That’s how you have to think about things in terms of your leads.
The frame is that you have to think about when you do a mailing, you’re sending out to this vast group of people. As these people call in to you, now you’re establishing a secondary database of people that have responded. That almost becomes your [inaudible 00:10:05]. So most of us just take one or two deals out that particular set of group of people and go out and try to find more people to put in there. But we forget about this group of people here.
So the question is, how can we take and cultivate those people that just are not ready to do something with us just yet, that there’s not an opportunity there for us and how can we then take that and make money from it?
This is a real life example. We do deals in South Florida, that’s my primary market and so we have acquisitions people. And so we had this guy that left us and we had this group of leads that were a couple of hundred leads that were his that he worked on. We kind of just forgot about them. Through my files I’m like, “Oh crap, look at all these leads. I think they’re dead leads.” They were dead, they were marked dead.
So I got a VA to call from the Philippines and said, “Hey, I want you to just call these people. If you have somebody that says ‘Yeah, I still have a house for sale and I’m still interested,’ then take that deal, bring it over to this other side and we’ll work it and see what we can do.”
What I just described to you took and produced over $50,000 from a list of people that we thought were dead. We revived them and made over $50,000 in wholesale fees. I think it was close to $60,000. Where is it that you’re missing out on?
I have another example where we use 24 hour recorded messages and people call into that and say if you have a message that’s three minutes long, some people are going to call in a minute, 15 seconds and hang up, some people are going to go a minute, some people are going to go all the way through and leave a message.
Obviously it’s easy, we call the people that leave a message. But there’s people that will hang up, listen to a couple minutes and then they will hang up, because they didn’t feel comfortable. So a tip is we go ahead and tell our clients “Go ahead and have somebody in your staff call everybody that hangs up.” And recently we had a client in San Diego that went through that and picked up a deal that I think he made $47,000 off of that deal, from a person that just hung up the phone simply because they didn’t feel comfortable. A lot of those are in your database.
So what I want to share with you guys is one particular tip and strategy that I think has the biggest impact, because I can give you a bunch of them but what can you do right now to give you the biggest impact.
What I would say is that you talk to a lead today and let’s say that you talk to a lead and they want 80,000. You offer then 60. So they’re not going to sell for 80. Normally what you would do, the horrible investors do is they just say, “Okay, I’m not going to call them again. I’m going to just find more leads.”
But I know you guys don’t do that. So the next level would be you put a little reminder and say I’m going to give them a call in 30 days. People do that. Or maybe you might have them in your big list of people that you’re constantly mailing to and then you say they’re going to get a postcard from me in another 60 or 90 days.
What we do is a little bit different. What we do is, and this is what I encourage people to do is that we want to take and move ourselves to the front of the line. If you think about it, this is the front of the line meaning that when they first call in and this is the end of the line meaning when they sell you the property. What we want to do is we want to . . . how can we get them so that they’re more engaged with us than anybody else that’s around, circling around and trying to get them to sell the house?
And so the way we do that is by putting in front of them something that is more substantial that’s going to get them to take notice and for them to say, “Hey, this guys is serious or this girl is serious and everybody else has done XYZ. But I think I’m going to at least try with them.” What we do is every time we have a lead, that we’re at a point where we can’t seem to come together on price, we automatically send them what we call a presale package or like we send them an entire contract package.
And so what most investors do, most investors don’t send anything. Some investors will say, “I’m going to just send them a letter with a contract and just see what happens.” What we do is we send them a complete package that includes contracts that is in a particular type of envelope that includes marketing materials.
And so now when they get this thing, now we’re still calling them and following up with them. But now all of a sudden when their situation changes, when they realize that their tenant situation isn’t going to get any better and they’ve gotten a call from a couple of people, they’ve gotten some more postcards. But now they’ve got this thing that they got from us.
What happens is that they call us. Even if what we put in terms of a price and there’s a particular way of structuring the document and putting it together which we will cover, but even if the price is off, they’ll call us and they’ll say, “Listen, we did a deal in Dallas,” where the guy said to us, “Look, the tenant moved out and it’s a big . . .” I was going to use profanity and then I just stopped myself. [inaudible 00:15:27] you know what. And he said like, “Look, everybody else has sent us postcards, they’ve called us. But you’re the only one that’s sent us this.”
“We want to sell and we’re prepared to sign. We don’t like your price. Can you work it out with us and we will sign right now and we’ll send it back to you.” We got a deal like that, that we made like $17,000 in Dallas, Texas.
Mike: Stay out of Dallas, Cris, stay out of Dallas. That’s great. You kind of standout. You’re differentiated because in a sea of inventors there’s very few that even try to stand out.
Cris: Exactly and so then it’s just basically how do you elevate yourself and how do you get yourself to just a little bit further ahead in their mind and their perspective so they say, “You know what, out of all these people to talk to, let me talk to this person first.” So if you want we can kind of get into the specifics of what’s included in the package and how it all works in order to try to help those that are listening, how they can take this and implement this in their own business.
Mike: Absolutely. So Cris, time for Taking Action, are you ready to tell us how to take action and show us the way.
Cris: I am not only going to tell you, but I am going to show you.
Mike: You’re going to show us? Awesome. So for those that are watching the video instead of listening and if you’re listening then go watch it. But Cris is actually going to show us his documents. Awesome.
Cris: Show and tell, so what do we send to sellers. Number one is they’re going to get a letter that looks like this. Nice big Express mail with a nice eagle, Urgent. They’re probably thinking, “What’s going on? Publishers Clearing House.”
Mike: That has a 100% open rate.
Cris: Right, if you look at this who is not going to open that? They’re going to open that. So mind you this part of the presentation is really when the caffeine really is most effective because [inaudible 00:17:25]. Here’s what we have so we are going to go step-by-step what we include.
So this package here, and let me open it up. This is an actual package here, it is one, two, three, four, five, six, seven. Seven pages to begin with, and also I forgot to mention, I’ve got to talk about these, they go together. This is a, first they get a letter and I don’t know if you could see it but it says here, “This sheet of paper is worth 100” and in this example “is worth $115,000 for the next 30 days.”
Mike: Which is your offer price?
Cris: Whatever the offer price is, and basically it’s a letter that tells them. “Hey, we talked on the phone. I’m interested. Here’s what I’m willing to do and this is only valid for the next 30 days.” So they get that. Now the second thing is we include a little bit of marketing collateral. We tell them, “Hey, there’s two ways to sell a property, you can either sell it yourself and do all these things or you can sell it to us and just worry about getting a check at closing.”
Okay, the next thing is now we also give them a nice little benefit sheet that says here are the benefits you’ll experience when you sell your property to us and it basically says like for example, one thing here it says, “We will buy your property using cash or private fund so that you don’t have to wait for a bank to approve your loan. Guaranteeing a fast closing without delays.” Us, yes. The competition, lots of contingencies.” So we go through this list.
So then now the next thing is, now we include the contract. We give them two copies of the contract, one for them. One it says here “Please sign this and keep for your records” and has our agreement already signed by us with all the information, the price that we’re looking to offer. So they can sign this one and keep for their records. And then we have another one here that says, “Hey, go ahead and sign this one and you have two options. Either you can mail the agreement back to us or you can fax the agreement to us and it’s the same contract again signed by us and everything together.”
We also include a nice little return envelope so that it makes it easy for them. We’re going to try to eliminate . . . I always think of it this way. You always have got to make it easy for the customer. Sometimes if you’re dealing with an elderly seller and you’re telling them, “Hey, just scan the contract and send it back to me,” like that’s a whole ordeal because they’re like, “Oh, I’ve got to call my daughter or my son-in-law.”
Mike: Right. Sometimes you talk to people that, they don’t even have email, they went some place to fax it and it didn’t come through.
Cris: So we send them this. If you think about it, I’m a seller and I just opened this thing here, and it has all these things here. And then all you’ve done, like you Mr. Mike Hambright from Dallas, Texas in the same market I’m working in, you just call them and just say, “Hey, I want to buy your house.” “Okay, I’ll follow up with you next month to see how things are going.”
And then I send them this and I call you and I say, “Did you get my package?” And they say, “Yes, I got your package. But your price is not the price I want.” I said, “I understand, just keep it. Sometimes things change on my end, sometimes things change on your end. But you have it and maybe we could chat in 30 days and we’ll see what happens.” That my friend is now, it doesn’t just end there because then what happens . . .
Mike: There’s no way. But wait, there’s more.
Cris: But wait, there is more, that’s right. Then now and every 30 days after that they get one of these things and this is a little nice invitation style envelope, number one. Number two and as I say this I’m thinking to myself, I don’t think anybody else in your show does this show and tell. I have to say.
Mike: I don’t recall seeing a show and tell.
Cris: This here is a nice yellow letter. It basically says, the contract is sent at day zero. I talked to you day zero and in 15 days my CRM reminds me to call you, and say, “Hey, you got my thing,” or whatever. So then 30 days after this, you’re going to get this, and it says, “Hey, I sent you this and I’m still interested in buying, because I was supposed to buy two houses and I only bought one, and I need to buy another one, if you’re interested.”
And it says, really important, it says here, we put the verbiage on there that says, “If the price isn’t what you think, what you would like, we can kind of review it and see if it makes sense or if it doesn’t make sense we can make an adjustment.”
Then what happens is they get that. They get this. Then I get a reminder 15 days after this for me to call you and say, “Hey, Mike, its Cris,” and you’re like, now what happens is, this is very important, and I’m sure this has happened to you, you call a seller, the first time you talk to them.
Then you think you have a great conversation and then you say, “I’ll call you in 30 days.” You call them in 30 days, and you’re like, “Hey, this is Mike Hambright and they’re like, “Who?” And you’re like, “Mike, we talked about your house, about buying the house.” And they’re like, “I don’t really remember that, but go ahead anyway.” When I call them, they’re like, “Oh Cris, yes I remember the eagle and the letters, and the calls, and . . .”
Mike: The nickname, the hitman, they remember you because you’re the hitman.
Cris: They’re like, we’re on a first name basis, “Hey, this is Cris Chico,” and they’re like, “Cris, how are you doing?” “Everything is great.” “Yeah. I keep on getting your stuff, but I’m not ready just yet.” So question, to you and to everybody, if I’m competing against Mike in Dallas, which I’m not, because Mike told me to stay away from Dallas, Texas, he’s a friend and so I do that. I actually have to call him every time I take a flight to Dallas, because he wants to know my whereabouts.
Then if I’m in competition for a deal with Mike, all things being equal and he’s wanting the same price as I do, who do you think is going to have a better chance? Who at least is going to have a better conversation with the seller? So that’s what I’m talking about is, how can you take yourself and move you to the front of the line.
It doesn’t guarantee anything, because you’ve still ought to be a person, you’ve still got to talk to them and you’ve got to be a sales guy. You’ve got to close the deal and if they don’t like you because you’re a jerk, and you’re just like a really horrible person to speak with, not Mike, Mike is a great person to speak with.
Mike: I’m a great guy. Cris, and I know that the underlying point in all of this is, taking the business to the next level, taking those extra steps to stand out, to go above and beyond, even things like follow-up calling are critical. We bought a house recently that we made our first offer on 54 months earlier.
We just followed up literally, for 54 months, we followed up. I use virtual assistants too because I will never call somebody 54 times. Literally they hung up on me, hung up on me, hung up on me. But they never told us to stop calling, so we kept calling, numbers disconnected, [inaudible 00:25:06] to try again in 30 days.
You just kind of stay on there, and whenever we buy these houses after a long period of time, I always look at the history because there’s always a story to it of why they didn’t sell to us originally, and what happened, transpired during that time. And it’s really fascinating from a follow-up perspective, the stuff that you just presented is incredible, no doubt about it.
I think just the point in this whole thing is, stand out, like go above and beyond, take those extra steps. I know people that say, “Well, we’re not going to sell.” And they’re just done, like they don’t follow up with the lead, they forget about it and move on.
Cris: And all of a sudden, when you have a month, after you do this a while, and you have a month when you’ve closed 10 deals and you realize that, hey, two are new but all these other ones are from all these people that I’ve been staying in contact with, and I’ve been doing everything that I’ve been doing, the way I’ve been doing it.
That’s really how you take your business and grow it, because it is about starting from a particular point and growing it. And that’s the thing is, how can you take yourself and stand out, and put yourself in a position where now you have the opportunity to do a deal versus not doing a deal, right.
Mike: So Cris, for folks that like hearing this, give some other quick examples and ways they stand out. Or if you compare it to an iceberg like at the beginning, I think you did, to where some people are just focused on the tip of an iceberg, but there’s a whole bunch of opportunity below that, give some examples so people can truly get something out of this interview, and take it away and maybe do something with it. Just not in Dallas, Texas, please.
Cris: Yeah, not in Dallas, Texas. One of the things that’s really great about me is that, I have a knack for the obvious. Well, maybe not so obvious. I think of it in terms of everybody is always looking for, like some ninja, and maybe this is just a little bit ninja, just maybe. The thing I would say above and beyond everything else is to become, to make it your objective to become a professional sales person.
By that I mean that everything will just completely not work, if you don’t have the ability to build rapport with people, to put yourself in a dialogue with them where they feel . . . because at the end of the day, I always think of it this way, a seller picks up, I was looking for my phone, a seller talks to you, picks up the phone and they’ve talked to 10 investors. And they all think it’s the same. They don’t remember their names.
But what you want them to do is they get off the phone with you and they look at their spouse and they say, “That guy, that’s the guy. That’s the guy that’s going to buy our house.” And it’s nothing about what you say. It’s nothing about anything except that how you come across to them. It’s communication, they always say it’s 90% of how you say it.
I think that most people don’t . . . that to me would be something that I would spend a considerable amount of time doing, and trying to develop, and trying to get yourself, because think of it this way. The transition is that you’re doing is yourself. Then you transition to getting other people and your team to do these calls and to talk to the sellers, and that’s how you grow your business.
But you have to become a better sales person, and to me its not anything fancy. But if all you did is just be better on the phone and be persuasive and work on that, it’s almost like you’re not going to even spend any more money, you’re going to take whatever you’re doing right now and amplify it, because you’re just going to be that much better over the phone. And so for me I look at it as an 80/20, I don’t think enough people pay attention to that.
Mike: I agree.
Cris: And I’ve taken NOP before, classes and stuff like that, I’m always very particular about how people say things, and the way they come across everything else. To me that’s really important. The hang ups, anybody that hangs up and listens to more than 30 seconds . . . if you’re using a 24-hour recorded message, I would definitely get a virtual assistant to call those people and to talk to them.
And just ask a series of questions and see if it might be somebody that you might be interested in speaking with. And to me those would be the low hanging fruit, the things that you could go out there and implement rather quickly, and just amplify what you’re already doing.
Mike: Awesome. Cris, for those that want to learn more or maybe reach out to you, where should they go, what should they do?
Cris: They can go to my site. They can Google me, they can just Google me Cris Chico, and your first result is crischico.com. You could just come visit my site, and we’ve got a lot of information available and a lot of free material available for investors. And our objective is just to help people starting out, or experienced investors, we work with both.
Mike: Cris, if people want to see an example of that package you just showed us with the documents, is there a way to share that?
Cris: What I will do is, for you, what I could do is I will put that on my site, I will put it a directory that’s only for you, if you’re okay with that, I could give [inaudible 00:30:34].
Mike: Yeah, you could give me a link afterwards unless you know it now.
Cris: Crischico.com/flipnerd, if you’re okay with that, and what I’ll do is, I’ll put this stuff on there, and that way for those that want a copy of this, that way they could try to implement it in their business. I’d be more than happy to give that to them.
Mike: That would be awesome, not only show and tell, but come and get it, that’s awesome.
Cris: I know. Come and get it, show and tell but come and get it that’s awesome. I mean hey, you got to hold on, because I got a guy with a big rabbit suit, just come walking in the door any second, it’s for the big finale.
Mike: Hey my friend, I appreciate your time. Thank you for sharing those tips. For those of you that are listening it is truly all about taking action, and I’d say it’s so difficult, but one of the more difficult parts of this business is generating good leads.
And you’ve got to continue to work those things until they’re truly dead, not just didn’t sound like they were interested right now. They originally contacted you for a reason, and there was some pain there, and sometimes you just have to wait around until there is more pain.
Cris: They’re never dead until they’re dead. Even then there’s probate.
Mike: Cris, good to see you my friend.
Cris: All right buddy.
Mike: Appreciate your time today.
Cris: All right, take care.
Mike: All right, Bye-bye.
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