Building Passive Income with Real Estate

Mike: Welcome to the FlipNerd.com podcast. This is your host Mike Hambright, and on this show I will introduce you to VIPs in the real estate investing industry, as well as other interesting entrepreneurs whose stories and experiences can help you take your business to the next level.
We have three new shows each week which are available in the iTunes Store, or by visiting FliNerd.com. So without further adieu let’s get started.
Hey, it’s Mike Hambright with FlipNerd.com. Welcome back for another exciting VIP interview where I interview some of the most successful real estate investing experts and entrepreneurs in our industry to help you learn and grow.
Today I’m joined by Linda McKissack, who is a best-selling author, speaker, coach, and she teaches others the power of building passive income through real estate investing, so buy and hold. She is also the owner of several brokerages that do over $60 million a year in volume. And as we sit here in 2015, it’s really perfect timing to talk about building passive income so someday you don’t have to work so hard. And Linda is a pro at that, so that’s what we’re going to talk about today.
But before we started let’s take a moment to recognize our featured sponsors.
Advertisement: RealtyMogul.com is an online market place for real estate investing, connecting borrowers and capital from accredited and institutional investors. Get a rehab loan fast and close in as little as 10 days. Rates start as low as 9%.
We’d also like to thank National Real Estate Insurance Group, the nation’s leading provider of insurance to the residential real estate investor market. From individual properties to large scale investors, National Real Estate Insurance Group is ready to serve you.
Please note, the views and opinions expressed by the individuals in this program do not necessarily reflect those of FlipNerd.com or any of its partners, advertisers or affiliates. Please consult professionals before making any investment or tax decisions as real estate investing can be risky.
Hey, Linda, welcome to the show.
Linda: Mike, I’m happy to be here, and thank you.
Mike: It’s always funny and it’s great, and what some folks don’t know is you’re probably ten miles away from me right now. I interview people all over the country and even all over the world sometimes, but you’re actually not that far away.
Linda: Absolutely, we’re going to have to get together.
Mike: Absolutely. Well thanks for joining us today, and happy New Year.
Linda: And happy New Year to you, too. I love new years.
Mike: Yes, it’s a time to kind of start over and reevaluate what we’re doing and try to find ways to improve in the future for sure.
Linda: Yes, absolutely.
Mike: Well Linda, it’s a great topic. We both understand the power of buying and holding real estate and building passive income. That’s really the reason why I think most people get into this business. I don’t think most of them get into it to be a wholesaler. I think if they’re wholesaling or rehabbing I think most do that to be able to keep some on the side and build that passive income up.
Linda: Right.
Mike: But before we dive into that though, why don’t you tell us a little bit about yourself, your background, and how you got into real estate investing?
Linda: Okay, absolutely. Well in the late ’80s in Texas, if you were here you probably remember the big crash. The whole industry, the real estate industry and savings and loan all crashed and basically in one day. And I’m very young at that point. I think I’m in my early 20s. I don’t even know what the word economy means; much less whether it’s good or bad.
But my husband had been in the restaurant and nightclub business, and I was in the middle of going to college, trying to figure out what I could do. I tried a lot of jobs, but couldn’t make a lot of money, but I’m a real hard worker and come from a family of hard workers. So I was in the process of trying to figure out what I could do to make good money, who am I, what could I do, what are my strengths.
And so, on the side, I was helping my husband at his restaurants and nightclubs, and all of a sudden the market crashed. And so the savings and loans and everything, when it crashed, bankers got nervous and they started calling notes due.
Mike: Right.
Linda: I knew something was wrong, because he didn’t want to sleep at night. He’d want to stay up all night. And come to find out it’s because the bankers started calling the first thing in the morning. He would eventually say to me, “I need your help. We’re $600,000 upside down in debt, and I need you to help me figure out a way to get out of it.” I said, “That’s great, you know I’m a hard worker, but so far nothing I have been able to do is throwing off that kind of money. What do you think I should do?”
And in his wisdom he looked at me and said, “Well, you know, someone told me a long time ago that if you want to make a lot of money, real estate is the way to do it.” We laugh today, because the guy probably meant buying and investing in real estate, since it’s made more millionaires than a lot of other things, right?
Mike: Right.
Linda: But come to find out Jim thought I should go sell real estate, so that’s what I did. I went and got my real estate license and started actively selling. I worked really, really hard, 60 or 80 hours a week. And then one day I actually kind of woke up and realized that the last day I made my last sale would be the last dollar I’d ever make. And so we needed to figure out some way to have money coming in for in the future when we didn’t either want to work or didn’t want to work as hard, or just wanted to do something else. So that kind of became our first kind of motivation. We very quickly realized there were only three ways to build wealth. It’s either businesses, real estate, or stocks. And we stink at stocks, so whatever we buy, don’t buy it and you’ll be good probably.
But for real estate you know it seemed like something that we could learn, especially being involved in real estate. We didn’t know about the investing side of it at the time, but that’s what we chose first. We eventually would choose businesses also. But we got to reading every book we could about investing in real estate, and just really kind of submerged ourselves in trying to figure out how to invest. So that was kind of our first reason for investing. We needed to create. I think we made $250,000 our goal. We said we want to make $250,000 someday, coming in passively, and then we just worked the numbers backwards. How many houses would we have to buy, how much money would they need to bring in when they’re free and clear?
My husband was almost 40 when we bought our first house, and I was in my 30s. And he wanted to have some money coming in about the time he was 65, and I had a little bit longer. So we just set his date as our deadline and said, “Look, we want $250,000 coming in by this date, and so that means we have to buy this many houses. We gave ourselves five years to do it. And that kind of started our original plan.
We had a big problem, though. Our problem was we didn’t have any money. We were upside down in debt.
Mike: Right.
Linda: We couldn’t get any money, so I came home with my first deal and said, “I found a deal and I’m really excited.” And he said, “That’s great. How are we going to pay for it?” And so I said, “Well, I don’t know, that’s a problem, but let me think about it.” And so I put my entrepreneurial hat on and I remembered a gentleman who was a builder locally in town. And I said, “I’m going to go ask Lou, and I think Lou will do it with me.” And so, sure enough, I went and asked Lou. I told him I thought we could make $15,000. So it’s kind of funny, our first house was actually a flip.
Mike: Yeah.
Linda: But I said, “I think we can make $15,000 pretty quick, and I’ll throw in my commission if you’ll go get the money at the bank and we’ll be partners on it,” and that’s what we did. So we did a total of three houses with him as a partner. The other two we kept, and eventually when we split our partnership we took one of the houses and he took the other. We still have that house today. We laugh, because Jim got his Social Security notice and I think it was $1,300 a month or something, and he could take if he took it at a certain age. And we laughed, because that one house is free and clear today and has been for many years, and it pays $2,200 a month.
Mike: Wow.
Linda: So it’s way better than the Social Security plan.
Mike: Yeah.
Linda: So that’s kind of how we got started. We didn’t have any money. We had limitations, but there is always an answer. There is always a solution to whatever you’re issue is or your obstacles are, and we just looked for an answer for that.
And fast forward, we have 106 residential properties now.
Mike: Great.
Linda: We have five commercial buildings and we have 11 nightly rentals in Branson, Missouri. So we’ve come a long way, and way surpassed the $250,000 goal, but at least that goal gave us a plan to work in and something to shoot for.
And so now we kind of get a thrill out of the book we’ve written called “Hold” a couple of years ago on how to find and buy and rent real estate to build long-term wealth. And now we’re working on some ways that we can help other people do some of the things that we’ve done.
Mike: That’s fantastic. What you say, I know there was a struggle, because I know what you say. I found myself at a wedding the other night for a real estate guy, so there was a bunch of real estate investors there. And we all ended up sitting at the same table and sharing stories and talking about how so many of our friends and family members are interested in what we do, but they just don’t do it. They just aren’t wired to take that risk, even though we’ve told them exactly what to do. They tend to not get started, and there’s some fear there. There is something there that keeps them away.
Linda: Yeah, absolutely.
Mike: Because you and I know you’re crazy to not buy and hold real estate.
Linda: I think for me my fear was greater than if I didn’t do it.
Mike: Yeah.
Linda: Where my income would come from or what my life might look like if I chose not to do it, and I think that’s part of the problem sometimes. People don’t go out 5, 10, 15, or 20 years and look at their life through a video camera and say, if I continue to do what I’m doing, how will I feel about that in 15 years or 20 years.
Mike: Right.
Linda: And so I think if we did a little bit more of that. I’ll never forget when our book first came out, a young boy that has practically grown up in our house, and it really could be the rich dad, poor dad story all over again. He loves our business side of us and his parents are academics and very smart people. I remember her saying to me when the book came out, “Yeah, but isn’t it risky? Isn’t it a hassle to have tenants?” And I said, “You know, yeah, it can be, but it would also be a hassle to be older and have no money coming in, or can’t work, and have no money coming in.”
I think it’s more about where you think the pain is the greatest. I always say that when the pain is greater staying where you are, that’s when you’ll make a move. And if we don’t reflect on what our life will look like, then the pain is never greater. It’s always the things we’re thinking about, like the tenants and the risk of the money and all those things.
Mike: And it is a shame, too. I think there are people definitely catching on to the fact that whatever a job they have that they think is secure may not be as secure as they thought it was, right?
Linda: Right.
Mike: And I’m sure you do too, that do very well. I had another guest on a while back and he said, “I live in a neighborhood with doctors and lawyers and people who make a lot of money, and you know, in the morning I’m coming in from the gym, not planning to go to work for several hours, and I see them rushing off to get to work, because if they don’t they don’t make money. And I can do whatever I want and I’m still making money.”
Linda: And I think the last crash really woke people up to realizing that what you thought was secure really isn’t secure.
Mike: Right.
Linda: I think that was a big wake up call for a lot of people, and that’s really why I believe we’re going to have more and more people really understand that until you actually take control of those streams of income, whether it be real estate investing or businesses or whatever you choose, because there are only three, right? That helped me to know there’s not 500 million. There is either learning how to own a business that runs without you, or there’s investing in real estate where someone else is paying off your asset for you. And so I think the last crash really helped people to understand when they lost their savings and all their money in the stock market and those kinds of things.
Mike: Right. Well, talk a little bit about houses. As we sit here at the beginning of the year, as we were talking about before, there are a lot of people that are typically using this time of the year to kind of plan and set goals and things like that. And you and I both know that what really matters is executing on those goals.
But let’s talk a little bit about that. There are some people interesting in doing what we are doing, but year after year you talk to them and they never get out of the gate. What are some of the tips you would give to people, if they want to do this, how to get that first deal under their belt, which really builds a lot of confidence?
Linda: That’s a great question. I think on any of our issues, when we don’t take action on something that we really know, stems around our beliefs that we hold onto. And so I think a lot of people need to spend time on the front end, really connecting with their big “why.” What will investing in real estate do for me, or what will not investing in real estate do for me?
Mike: Right.
Linda: I always say if you could start in that area where you really connect to why you would want to invest in real estate. What will it do for you? Because people take action on emotion and then they justify it with logic. And so it’s going to be that emotional piece. I know it was for me. The thought of having to work 60 or 80 hours a week like I was working in the real estate industry, for 20 plus years from that time, did not appeal to me. It did not sound very good. And so that was really my motivation, my drive to do it in the first place. It was to create that what I felt like was more security, because I’m putting my freedom in my own hands.
I think people have to connect, whether it’s to buy one house to send one of your kids to college. There’s an emotional thing there. And when we understand what we say yes to, when we say yes to something we’re saying no to something else. Or when we say no to something else, we’re saying yes to something. And so once they connect those dots, I think it’s easier to get over the fear.
First of all I think the fear never necessarily goes away, and so you have to understand that everybody has fear. I always say, “Don’t compare your inside with anyone else’s outside.” We all have insides. And so if you look at your eye and say, well they are braver, or they are smarter, or any of those things, you’re totally wrong about all of them.
Mike: Right.
Linda: And I think knowledge helps with alleviating fear. And so you’re going to have to take action even in the face of fear. So once you understand that, then you can connect the dots on what you want this to do for you. What will it do for you emotionally? Can I send a kid to college that I might not be able to, or can I have some money so I’m not dependent on my grown children someday?
Whatever your emotional thing or why you want to do it, whether it’s to send a kid to private school, whether it’s so one of you can quit your job that you hate, or that you don’t want to be tied to. Get connected to that first, and then you’re going to get some numbers from that. You’re going to say, okay, one house is probably going to be this much money. It’s going to throw off this much money passively. Then you can have a plan that you can actually take action on.
Mike: Yeah.
Linda: But I think we have to connect emotionally first and then you’ll get clarity on what those numbers look like. And then find the guidance you need, either through a video course or a book, or trainers and teachers, that can help you take that next natural step, so you don’t feel like you’re all alone.
Mike: Yeah, I think what a lot of people don’t think about, even after we just heard your story, and I’m the same way. Literally seven years ago I’d never bought a house in my life other than the one house my wife and I lived in. It just took doing those few deals and then you kind of move forward.
I think it’s interesting hearing people talk about houses in terms of almost like a currency. It sounds like all you need to do is do a deal, because that’s how we think of it over time. I’m trying to achieve some level of income, or pay for certain things, whatever it is. And that’s our currency, I guess, real estate, right?
Linda: Yes, that’s the way we equate things.
Mike: Well, there are so many people who use the lack of money, don’t have the money to do it as an excuse. And in some ways it initially can be a valid excuse, I guess, but they can’t go on forever. And I think you and I probably both know that money is so much easier to get today than it was a few years ago. But talk about that a little bit, how some folks who are listening right now and thinking, where do I get the money. I don’t have the money to do even one deal. Where are some places they can look or some advice?
Linda: Okay, it is probably the number one thing. We’ve been teaching this. We’ve been teaching our strategy for probably 15 or more years, even before we wrote the book. And so it is something we always get as an objection. And just like in our situation, $600,000 upside down in debt, you can’t go to the bank and say I want to buy an investment property. And so you have to put your creative hat on and figure out what would be a solution.
And I think like you and I said earlier, people’s security was shaken in the last crash, and so I think there are a lot of people looking for a place for their money, and they’re not getting great returns on their money. So I think you have more now than ever the opportunity to find someone with the money. I looked for a relationship that I already knew how they responded about money. I already knew that he was fair and ethical, and so that’s why I sought him out to be my partner in it.
Mike: Yeah.
Linda: He knew I had the knowledge and he trusted me, so that’s one way, to look for someone you could partner with. We have a lot of students that we’ve taught over the years that go in and do it with their parents, because their parents don’t know how and they’re starting to wake up and realize they haven’t done anything to prepare for not having any money coming in.
Mike: Right.
Linda: So that’s always a great source. A few years ago we had a group that we were working with and I really got frustrated. It was always about there’s never any money. So I just did an exercise for a while and said, “Okay, every time I think about going out for dinner I’m going to put that money in a coffer.” And before you know it I actually had enough money to pay off one of our lowest houses that we had a balance on. And so I thought if you can do that.
We’ve done automatic payments systems before. My husband teases us and says we have the DMD disease; the disappearing money disease, which means if we get money it’s gone, so knew that about ourselves. And so we had an automatic system on our money that came in in commissions. We had our title company take out 15% of every dollar we ever made, and sure enough, just like all the books say, the minute the money is not there you don’t miss it anymore.
Mike: Right.
Linda: So you can do an automatic system where the money is automatically taken out. You can find a partner, or you can just kind of look for ways that you’re already spending the money. The money is already there, but it’s getting absorbed for something else. I’m always trying to think outside of the box on where that money could come from. So I think that’s a few of them at least that have worked for us.
Mike: There are a lot of partnership opportunities in real estate, and I think some people may get hung up, and rightly so they should. I’ve seen a lot of partnerships, and you probably have, too, that end badly.
But you could go into it though, and not necessarily be partners in the same company, but you could find ways to work together through just kind of more of what I’ll call a JV as a transaction by transaction basis. And the reality is I think for a lot of new people; after they’ve done a few deals they have so much more confidence and so much more knowledge on how to do things. You can just use those first few deals that you maybe had to partner on as a stepping stone for a way to get into the business.
Linda: Yes, absolutely. And on partnerships one of the great things to do is go ahead and have an exit strategy for the partnership before you begin the partnership.
Mike: Yes.
Linda: In other words, have a way that it’s going to end, or you can end it, or those things are thought through before you have them.
Mike: Yes. Well, Linda, I know you invest in other markets. And what’s been interesting to me over the past year of doing the show and meeting some of the other real estate investors is I’ve been more of the classical mind of buying in my market. Here in Dallas all of my properties are in the Dallas, Fort Worth market. But there are so many other people that I know now that are investing in lots of different markets. And there is definitely a lot to be said for when a market gets overheated just go pick up your ball and go play in another playground somewhere else. But talk a little bit about that strategy, buying in another market and how that’s easier. I’m kind of throwing you a softball over here.
Linda: That’s okay, yeah.
Mike: It has become easier than ever, because of the technology, I think. But just talk a little bit about that general opportunity of buying in multiple markets.
Linda: And we were one of those people. Almost everything we had was in the Dallas, Fort Worth area, Carrollton, Flower Mound, Louisville, Denton, that location. And a couple of years ago I actually did a breakout session with Robert Kiyosaki when he came to town on investing. And there was a lady in the audience, and we teach on our business side that it’s all about the “who.” I think everything is about the “who.” I mean, if you’re going to get large or you’re going to expand it’s about the “who,” the talent that can help you do that.
And so my husband had taught a class here locally at one of our offices, and this woman had come. She never introduces herself. I did a breakout with Robert Kiyosaki, she came and never introduced herself. We meet her sometime about a year later and she says, “Oh, I’ve been through your program and I bought 20 properties and I’m a stay-at-home mom.” And I’m thinking, gosh, that’s talent.
Mike: Yeah.
Linda: So I just reached out to her and said, “Hey, well you know what? You and I are going to be new BFFs. Why don’t you and I meet on a regular basis?” Because I’m thinking anybody who is that sharp, you want to get to know them. So we started meeting on a once-a-month basis at Barnes and Nobles. And I said, “Let’s just hold each other accountable for buying investment properties and investing.” She said, “Great idea.”
So we started meeting, and she kept talking about these cabins in Branson, Missouri, and I’ve been to Branson, Missouri. I’m thinking, go carts, a bunch of music. And my kids had gone to Kanakuk Kamp before, and that part I liked a little bit, but I’m thinking, I don’t know. I’m not very crazy about Branson.
But one day about eight month into the relationship she says, “You know, I short-sale on two cabins and I can only buy one. Do you want to buy one?”
It was the iciest day of the year, in February. I remember it was solid ice, all across the country.
Mike: Yeah.
Linda: We decided to drive to Branson, Missouri to take a look. And what normally would take us in 7 hours took us 14 hours to get there. But when we get there we fall in love with these cabins, the trees and it’s just beautiful; just absolutely gorgeous. So we said, yes, we want to do it. So we bought the first cabin, and now we have 11, and we’re going on Thursday to head back up there to look at a couple of developments that we might do up there.
But there were a lot of things that made it okay to do. Number one, she was already managing hers and some other people’s, so we already had the “who” in place; that we could take care of them. And then once we saw the numbers and we’re numbers people. We know how to figure the numbers. We just scratch them down on a piece of paper. Then we really saw that this would be a great thing for us to invest in, so that’s really how we got outside of doing it, and now we’ve fallen in love with it and think it’s a great market. It has some great potential, and the nightly rentals are phenomenal; great investment properties. So that’s kind of what got us to do Missouri.
Now my husband did buy one house on that TV show that was late at night in Florida with the guy with the ponytail. I said, “I can’t go to sleep and leave him up anymore, because when I wake up the next morning he goes, “I think I bought a house.” But again, that house was bought because it was in Port Charlotte, and his niece had just visited us earlier that year and she’s a retired dispatcher for the police department and I said to him, “You know, she’d be a great property manager.” And so, those words, their visit, the late night TV, my husband can’t sleep, so we wound up with one house. I think we have one or two I think in Port Charlotte.
So those are really the only ones that we’ve done outside, but we also thought we would never really buy anywhere else. And so I think once you get more confidence about investing and you know a lot more and the pieces kind of fall in place, it’s just a next, natural step. And quite honestly, we didn’t know at the time that all the foreclosures were going to fall off the way they have. So we were buying foreclosures here, tons of them, and then we were buying in Branson. And so now the foreclosures have fallen way off, but we still know more about the opportunity in Branson. So it’s been a great market at the moment for us.
Mike: That’s great. Do you manage your own properties here?
Linda: We actually tried the whole gamut on managing. We have one of the best situations we’ve ever had right now. We have a Baby Boomer, who is in his early 70s. He’s in great shape, a smart guy, and has already had one very successful career. If you understand behavior, he’s a driver analytical, so he’s a DC. So he likes to do it fast, and he likes to do it correctly. He’s been our best we’ve ever had. We’ve owned our own property management company; not [inaudible 00:25:56] for me. We’ve used other property management companies. We’ve done it all, and this is the best one we’ve ever had. He takes care of only our properties.
Mike: Yeah, that’s great. I don’t manage my own rentals either. It took some time to find the right person to manage those. But it’s funny, when I think about buying in other markets potentially, and I’m not sure you’re the same way I am, but I’ve almost made it a point to never drive past a property that I own, because I just don’t want to know. I mean, I let my manager take care of it, and if there’s a problem I’ll find out about it. But there’s no reason for me to go looking for problems.
And so it’s almost like if I don’t drive past them, and in almost all of my rental properties I’ve never been back to them after we bought them and did the initial rehab, with the exception of a couple where we had a fire, a major fire where it was a total loss where I had to go deal with it. It just starts to make you wonder, if you’re not going to go back to your properties and you feel like you have a competent person managing all of them, then why is geography a limitation?
Linda: Absolutely. When you said that, I thought about early on. We would go back to them because you’re so excited and so proud about them. And now I probably drive past some that we have, and I don’t even know we have them. Honestly, I just said, we should have thought of this in advance and painted them all the same color, so at least when I drove by I’d go, oh, I think that’s one of ours. We do have a big map here in our office that helps us see where all the houses are. But to be honest with you I could probably drive by one and not even remember we had it, we have so many at this point.
But I’m like you; I’m always about moving forward, so there’s really no need to go back. So you’re right, it doesn’t really matter. If you’re not going to live there you can’t drive by there anyway.
Mike: Right. We have just a few minutes left here and I wish we could talk for more time, because I know there’s a bunch we haven’t covered yet. But maybe just take a few minutes and talk about some of the stuff we have uncovered yet that you think is really critical to help people get started, or even if they’ve gotten started, to kind of build up their portfolio.
Linda: Well, I think one thing that’s been really important for us is we’re real simple people, you know; that’s what I always say. What I hoped to leave everybody with is for them to say, gosh, if they can do it I know I can do it, too. We are real simple; we don’t use complicated formulas. Our approach is real simple. But I think part of people’s fear is they have heard horror stories of people losing their money. And when you look at our simple formula, we never are over leveraged in a property.
And there are these safety measures, and if you have those, because what I think happens is people get confused between speculating and investing, and speculating is different. It’s more of a gamble, more of a risk. And what we teach and what we profess is truly investing, and that means you have a formula. You know what you looking for. You have your ideal product that you’re looking for, and you don’t let anything veer you off from that. You don’t buy because something is going to be a good deal someday. It’s either a good deal today when we buy it, or we don’t buy it at all.
So I think if you could find a real simple… and you know, this is another passion that I have. I think sometimes real estate investing gets a very bad rap, because I don’t know if it’s all the many years of zero down and all that stuff. We always say, if that’s what you’re looking for, we’re not it, because we’ve never been able to do that approach. We can’t do that approach.
But if you’re looking for something that’s simple and that’s safe because you know what you’re doing and you’re making sure all the stop gaps are in. It’s a good deal when you buy it, and you’re not buying for appreciation. Appreciation is a bonus rising on the top. And you have those formulas and you know the product you’re looking for, it really moves people to a place where they feel a lot more comfortable. We have bought in every market. And do you know what, the property that we’ve held we’ve never lost money on. We have lost money on flips before. We’ve mis-evaluated or whatever, but with a hold the time is fixed almost with any issue we could ever have. And so, if you’re not over leveraged in them, we always have a 70/30 loan evaluation ratio. So there are a couple of real simple things that we stick with. I never let my husband go to an elderly couple’s house, because he always pays too much. So we have these little things that we stick with.
But I think if people realize that there’s a difference between speculating and investing, then you’re going to learn to be an investor. And that means that it’s going to take you time. Right now is the perfect time to spend time and money on books and energy and courses, because the market is a little harder to find, so you could use this time and it always turns, it does. It always does. And there are always good deals out there. Unfortunately through divorce, drugs, and all those unfortunate things that people get themselves into that will cause a good deal to be there. But you can do that preparation and learn as much as you possibly can now so that when you are ready you can take that step a little more confidently.
Mike: Yeah, well, Linda, thanks so much for your time today. If folks want to learn more about you, I know you do some coaching and you have a lot of great information you put out. Where should they go?
Linda: You can go to Linda McKissack.com and you’ll have all of our information there. We even have some briefings on there that you can take advantage of. And we do some podcasts and things that you can listen to.
Mike: Fantastic, well thanks again so much for your time today, and hopefully we’ll cross paths really soon in person.
Linda: That sounds good, Mike. I’d love to. Thank you.
Mike: Have a great day.
Linda: You, too, bye, bye.
Mike: Thanks for joining us on today’s FlipNerd.com podcast. To listen to more of our shows and hear from incredible guests, please access all of our podcasts in the iTunes Store. You can also watch the video versions of our shows by visiting us at FlipNerd.com.