Investing in Caribbean Islands

Mike: This is the FlipNerd.com Expert Real Estate Investing Show, the show for real estate investors, whether you’re a veteran or brand new. I’m your host, Mike Hambright and each week I bring you a new expert guest that will share their knowledge and lessons with you. If you’re excited about real estate investing, believe in personal responsibility, and taking control of your life and financial destiny, you’re in the right place.
This is episode number 364 and my guest today is David Keener. Now, after more than 360 episodes, we’ve talked about most topics in real estate investing, but today is a new one. We discuss flipping islands in the Caribbean.
Specifically, David tells us about his business of building luxury homes on private islands in Belize and generally selling fractional shares to those that may use them a little for personal reasons but mostly treat them as an investment, just like a turnkey rental property you might buy here in the United States. It’s a fascinating topic. So, I’ve seen these properties. They’re gorgeous. The business model is interesting, to say the least, and exciting.
So, there are so many ways to make money in real estate investing. I’m really excited to share this episode with you. It’s something new. It’s something fresh. We all love the lifestyle that real estate gives us. A lot of us get into it for the lifestyle. Well, this might be a way, and this is a way that David found, to marry his love for real estate, his love for real estate investing and his passion for travel and living the lifestyle type dream we all shoot for. So, it’s an exciting episode. I’m excited to share it with you. Please help me welcome David Keener to the show.
David, welcome to the show.
David: Thank you very much for having me. I’m very happy to be on this show and hopefully provide a nice new topic that’s very relevant and entertainment after 364 shows.
Mike: It’s exciting. Yeah. It’s funny. I’ll tell people a little bit of story that are listening. We’re going to talk about David’s business today, which is actually like flipping islands or building houses and selling fractional shares in Belize and very exotic locations, gorgeous houses. You see it and you’re like, “Whatever I’m doing right now, I want to get up and just go there.”
It’s funny because my wife and I were joking around about vacation stuff. She sent me an email, this goes back like two months ago, oddly enough, you guys, your office is maybe ten miles from where I’m at here, probably less than that. And you have some people on your team there that I know. So, our paths cross a little bit.
But she sent me this email that said, “I think I found our island.” And she sent me a link to buy a fractional share of the island. I was intrigued by it and I started passing it around to some friends and said, “Hey, let’s go in on this.” Anyway, one thing led to another and here we are talking about the same topic.
David: Awesome. It is a small world here in the Dallas real estate market. You know that.
It’s not surprising our paths would cross. I’m very glad to be on the show. We do think we have a very nice, unique, niche island product that’s in Belize only two and a half hours from the Dallas Airport.
Mike: Yeah. Well, David, before we get started, tell us your background. I know you weren’t always in the island space doing things quite as exotic. You were doing more building in the Dallas area. I know you’ve got a lot more to your story. Tell us your background.
David: My background certainly did not start exotic. I spent seven long years at Deloitte in the accounting world and then went into the real estate development, mainly here in the Dallas-Fort Worth market. I’ve been one of the largest single-family developers in the market. I was there for ten years, number two person, developed literally thousands and thousands of lots per year. Then I’ve been on my own here for probably 15 years now doing commercial development in the Southwest area primarily.
A friend of mine built a resort down in Belize in 2001 and invited me and my wife and our family to come down. I kind of just saw the opportunity. It was very, very early. A lot of things have changed, obviously, since 2001, certainly in Belize. But we saw it initially as an opportunity. I waited seven, eight years, then we started building down there and moved most of our development activity . . . still have some commercial office stuff in the Southwest market.
But I guess I was kind of getting bored, maybe too easy, could do it in my sleep, developing lots here in the states. I needed something harder, certainly it was and is. We started off with single-family beach homes in Belize and then I guess that got too easy, so we had to step it up a notch or ten and move offshore and do the same thing on islands. So, that’s where we’re kind of focusing as well as beach houses now.
Mike: Yeah. That’s fascinating. So, there’s this idea we were talking about of like lifestyle investing, right? I even think about it now . . . I agree with you about getting bored. This is a good business. It treats us well. Most years, it treats us well, right?
David: Some years not.
Mike: There might be a couple blips in there. But we all do this for lifestyle. There are some places that my wife and I go to, in fact every year we go to Cabo. We have a timeshare there and we’ve been going there for a long time and we love it. Every year we go there, we think, “We should buy a place here,” because we have a timeshare anyway, but we should buy a place and maybe we’ll stay there a couple months out of the year and rent it out the rest of the time. That’s the product you ultimately created, right?
Talk about that marriage of real estate investing as your business and passion for travel. I have a lot of friends in the real estate space that love to travel. Just talk about those things, obviously they sync up, but give your perspective on it.
David: Absolutely. Yes, I have a true love for real estate. It’s been that way since I was in high school. I bought my first house when I was in high school with my dad. I think that combination of having a really unique and sexy destination that you can then take your real estate experience and overlay and do things better than what people were doing before is where we saw the opportunity.
Some [inaudible 00:06:22] investors, both in local personnel and training and infrastructure, we have a warehouse here. In Texas, obviously, we save a lot of materials to be shipping down both for construction and for operations. We found that we can make this work and still have a great destination. When we went to Belize initially, I loved the fishing and diving. So, now we have the boat and all the infrastructure down there to enjoy that. So, we come down there, we work and still have time to play as well.
The key for a lifestyle investment is that an investment dream doesn’t become an investment nightmare. I think that’s really what our model is set up for. People have this dream of building a house in Belize but they’re not going to live there mostly full-time, six months plus. The economics and reality start to set in and it’s not really that fun sometimes, we just have to use it and there’s all this work to be done.
We created a model really for what I would like for us. We created it almost out of necessity. We built a beach house down there. We had a partner who kind of . . . we were in a downturn, needed money. So, we had to buy him out. We ended up owning this house by ourselves. I was still working every day full-time in the Dallas market, so we almost had to force ourselves to go down there just because we had to use it.
So, the economy was really in the tank at that time, so we were needing to find a unique way to . . . I didn’t want to sell the house but I didn’t like writing checks every month either. So, that’s how the fractional concept was born for us is we just found some people to enjoy it with us and then we created a house that actually made money through rental. We could afford to have a full-time staff, could afford to have trucks and golf carts. We have [inaudible 00:08:14] things like that so it makes it much more enjoyable.
So, we’ve taken that and we’ve just replicated it and soon we tried to do the same thing [inaudible 00:08:26] over the last seven years.
Mike: Yeah. That’s awesome. It’s funny that you say that because it’s real easy for something that . . . the nice thing about a vacation home in my experience . . . I don’t own a vacation home, but about going on vacation is being able to walk away when you’re done and not having to do work, right?
David: Absolutely.
Mike: So, we’ve talked about . . . I kind of said we talked about buying a house. We also go out to Vale and Beaver Creek every year. So, we think about all these things. I’m like if you start to think of it as your home, just the psychology of renting that out to somebody else, if you start off with that basis, people start to tear up your home or some damage happens or you feel like you have to do it, then it becomes a job, right?
I think the fractional model where you’re just a part owner and there’s somebody else that’s maintaining it and doing all the maintenance and taking care of it just makes sense from a vacation standpoint. But also in your business model, though, I know when you saw fractional shares, I don’t know if they’re always the same setting, but typically an owner has more shares or more weeks available than what they use personally. That’s where the investing side comes in. They start to use that as an investment. Can you explain that a little bit?
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That’s where the investing side comes in. They start to use that as an investment. Can you explain that a little bit?
David: Yeah. Basically, our model is we’ve kept it very simple, easy to explain so people understand. But basically, we have ten shares in the home. We’re not selling like a time share. These are ten shares. It’s ten owners. If they want to change the management company tomorrow, then I guess a majority votes to change the management company and they change the management company. There’s no hidden management contract, investment fees and stuff like that.
So, each owner gets five weeks a year, the two weeks over Christmas, the revenue generated from that gets allocated to all ten owners equally. Most of the owners typically will use two weeks a year, rent out three weeks and then get a check at the end of the year for the [inaudible 00:11:15].
We do have some owners that use all weeks. We have some owners that use no weeks. The way the system works, each owner is free to use zero or five. The owners that use the five weeks, actually, doesn’t really use it themselves but they use it for corporate giveaways and trips and so forth.
Mike: Sure.
David: Again, it’s all [inaudible 00:11:38].
Mike: Yeah. Well, I just bought some Dallas Stars tickets and I know I’m going to give them away to people and vendors and stuff. I’m working my way towards an island. I’m going to start with hockey tickets.
David: I like to hear that. Actually, our newest project we just started a foundation on this week is going to be a seven-room island that’s right across . . . literally, you hit a golf ball to it to where the main village is, city power, city water. That island, we’re actually gearing towards kind of a corporate sales meetings incentive trip, client giveaways so you can bring a large group down. It’s got a little conference room air conditioned in the middle of it. So, it’s really [inaudible 00:12:18].
Mike: Yeah. Let’s talk about . . .
David: But we’ve got [inaudible 00:12:30].
Mike: Let’s talk about it from an investor’s standpoint. I might say this wrong, but I think you’re just like other investors in the sense that you probably go raise private money or maybe pre-sell some stuff to try to raise money for a project just like somebody would that is building a rental portfolio might use self-directed IRA money, maybe raise private money, maybe use some bank money. So, you’re building . . . it’s an exotic location, beautiful location, but the fundamentals of the business are very similar to what a lot of us do here in the states. Am I saying that right?
David: The fundamentals are driven directly from what I use here in Dallas. We just basically adapted those to fit the Belize market, very, very similar. Everything you just said . . . funding new projects with pre-sales, funding it with private investment, people can either keep their money working, convert it to a share in one of the homes. So, yeah, a combination of everything but bank debt. We don’t have any bank debt. That’s the only thing that’s different than the states, obviously. There’s no four percent money available.
Mike: Right. And so talk about some of the challenges that you’ve faced or that others would face about going . . . I’ll say this. I’ve tried to go into some new markets and we’ve done some things where it’s a challenge to find regular contractors in the next town over, let alone than Belize or somewhere. Just talk about some of the challenges maybe with contractors that do the work and things like that, but also you kind of introduce a whole new issue, which is maybe some government regulation type issues. Maybe share your experiences there.
David: One of the things I like about Belize is that it is English-speaking, has an English common law system. In a really basic basis, it’s very similar. We can read the documents, at least I can, anyway. Common practice that we see here in the states is pretty much the same. When it gets into construction, 100% totally different. Everything is 100% [inaudible 00:14:35] concrete, concrete walls, most of them have concrete roofs. So, the method of construction is completely different than sticks and bricks [inaudible 00:14:50]. And obviously there’s a huge cultural difference of how things get done.
So, it took some learning. We started slow for that very reason. We applied that slow growth and had a methodical approach to it, got some key people in place, got some key personnel on the construction side that were able to step it up and grow effectively and they’re going down there [inaudible 00:15:17] and they would fail miserably because it needs to be a learning process and a slow curve. While you may know how to build a skyscraper in Dallas, you need to build a [inaudible 00:15:27] in Belize.
Mike: Right. And things like the political climate, I know in some countries, I know that you can’t technically own property. It’s in like a trust and you have a land lease and there are all sorts of weird things. Is that an easier problem to overcome in Belize versus other countries?
David: Belize follows the British common law system being a former British colony. They were a British colony until 1981, so they just adapted the same system. So, you don’t have any of the 99-year kind of leases like you’d have on the coast of Mexico. If you get a proper title, you can actually get title insurance like you can in the states.
You can get title and use an attorney to do it. So, the normal process that you would see again in the market pretty much transfers over when it comes to leases and titles and things like that. But the biggest challenge is just a methodology and availability of materials. I mentioned it’s getting better and better every year. Things have changed over the last five years dramatically. Before, you really had to have a facility here in the states that you effectively build, you had to [inaudible 00:16:37] and the quality was not there and the price was higher than you thought it was. We had to address that and we did address it, and again, [inaudible 00:16:52].
Mike: Yeah. So, talk about . . . there’s been this boom, like a have a lot of friends that are actually building property specifically or buying and rehabbing property especially in vacation type areas specifically as investments for VRBO and Airbnb. It used to be Airbnb started with, “Hey, I’m going to let somebody sleep on my couch,” or, “I’ve got a spare bedroom.”
It’s evolved into people like, “I’m going move or I’m travelling four months out of the year so I’m going to rent out my place.” Now it’s become a business where people are actually buying property specifically just for fractional shares or kind of hoteling type space. Maybe talk about how that trend and phenomenon has helped you morph your model.
David: Well, VRBO was really the driver of that whole home rental business. VRBO, in my opinion, alleviated travel agents and property managers certainly related to houses and [inaudible 00:17:47] places like that where you were forced, up until VRBO became prominent to have a property manager manage their house assuming that they’re trying to find rentals and 30 to 40% of revenue . . . the minute you pay somebody 30-40% of revenue, there’s no way you’re going to make profit because they just took it all.
So, that to me was really the key for VRBO. It opened up the market. It was really the person who wanted to rent was dealing directly with the person that had the home. You cut out all the middle men, allowing the person who rents it to get a better price and a person like ourselves that use VRBO to actually make money.
We’re very prominent on VRBO. We’ve been using it over ten years now. We’ve watched them change. It has evolved. They’ve done a good job from their side of monetizing their asset they’ve created. So, it’s getting more and more traffic. We see that traction continuing. I think VRBO and HomeAway and even Airbnb. We don’t see a lot of Airbnb. I think [inaudible 00:18:50] than many on Airbnb. But we see it becoming more and more mainstream that people that used to only just stay at a Marriott or Ritz-Carlton or true hotel are starting to see the benefits of renting a home.
Especially with our homes, they’re really a resort in the package of a home with a chef, full-time maid, staff on site. Is it a resort? Is it a home? We’re marketing it as a home and I like that because the bar is a lot lower. People think they’re renting a home and they get there and their expectations are so exceeded versus if they get a resort, then it’s trying to get over a higher bar.
Mike: Right. So, let’s talk a little bit about the investing side. So, I know you said you had another project coming up. You guys are obviously going to continue to do more projects where you raise money from investors. They become fractional owners, so ultimately not that different. We’ve talked a lot on this show about turnkey, so buying a rental property. Somebody else is managing it for you. They’re handling the maintenance and dealing with tenants and stuff like that.
In your model, somebody could buy a fraction of your property and rent it out much the same way. So, talk about the pros and cons of . . . let’s just say somebody coming to buy a fractional share of your property versus going to buy a ten-hour portfolio in Cleveland or something. Just talk about the pros and cons that investor might see.
David: Well, to me the pro is you get an asset you can actually use. So, if the market is really bad that year, you can still go use two or three weeks and get something for your return. Our return exceeds probably or certainly equals what I would expect to make on just a straight house rental, three bedrooms, two baths for the house and hit the market. We see that historically.
Our current owners are very happy with the quality of the product when they come down from a vacation standpoint and also from the check they get at the end of the year from the weeks they do rent. Obviously, if they use all five, they’re not getting a check but they’re spending very little to go do five weeks. Most of our owners use two weeks.
That model to me, it makes perfect sense for anybody that unless they’re going to live there more than four months, six months a year, then it’s a different model that you have a house and you’re using it most of the time and maybe you rent it out when you’re not there.
Mike: Right. Talk about the kind of . . . so, the checks they get from renting are obviously the cash flow. We talk about rentals, we talk about cash flows, tax advantages. I guess the tax advantages are very similar. We talk about appreciation, right? Ultimately, liquidity is an important thing. So, let’s talk about appreciation, like what happens and liquidity if somebody wants to realize that. If they want to sell their share, how liquid are these things typically?
David: We have had probably three or four resales over the years now. We actually have a waiting list now on three of the beach houses with people wanting to buy shares and they’re not available. I think there’s a good mix of markets. Again, I think we’re offering the value. The price that we’re selling our 10% shares at, takes that times 10, it really is close or maybe in some cases almost less than you could sell the whole house for. That’s with a proven rental model and proven history.
I think we’ve created a good bit of upside for people if they hold on to it for a few years to not only make a return, get their feet wet into a destination that they can decide if they want to invest [inaudible 00:22:28] or keep what they got in terms of a few weeks a year and make a nice cashflow.
That to me is key. The fractional lets you be an owner and kind of dip your toes in the pool without jumping from the high dive.
Mike: Right. Do the owners know one another? I guess they could, but do you make any effort for them to know one another?
David: The owners have full access to each other. Again, our model is very transparent. It’s not like there’s a curtain that we keep everything behind. So, there will be an email and all ten owners can correspond back and forth. Their phone numbers are all there. Many of them have become friends, many have started sharing their weeks.
Mike: Exactly.
David: One couple and this couple will say, “You use your week this time and we’ll use my week next time and we’ll start sharing,” because the houses are large. And on the new islands the bigger islands, we’re actually taking two weeks out of the year going forward and going to have just owner weeks. The first seven, like you sign up will each get a room on the island and can all come down and get to know each other, go diving, go fish and hang out.
Mike: Yeah. That’s awesome. For those that are just straight investors, you said you think the returns typically tend to exceed those buying single-family-type houses in the states, I guess.
David: What we’ve seen . . . we have some owners that have multiple shares. We have one owner that has three, one that has four, actually. So, obviously, they bought one share for you sort of and the rest are investment. Those investment returns we see are typically in the 8 to 10% range.
Mike: Okay. Are people able to buy? I don’t think David’s an attorney. I’m not an attorney. So, anything I say here, take it with a grain of salt, everybody. But can you buy these shares in a self-directed IRA account?
David: Well, we made some changes to our model last year, spent a lot of money, a lot of time, made it simpler and cleaner and avoided some of the foreign reporting requirements with the IRS and treasury department. All of our new projects are actually in Texas LLCs, so you’re actually buying 10% of a Texas LLC under a Reg D filing that owns the asset 100%.
Mike: I see.
David: From that standpoint, yes. You are able to use 401(k). There are some use requirements you’ve got to get around to an attorney.
But again, it’s very clean. You get a K-1 at the end of the year just like you would from oil and gas investment or anything else. We’ve tried to really simplify it and not have all the foreign banking investment requirements. So, it’s getting a lot cleaner, a lot simpler, a lot easier for people to understand.
Mike: Yeah. Have you seen folks that are . . . how challenging is it to get financing if they want to lever their money?
David: We do offer financing internally. We have a financing program that we carry the note on. But to get true bank financing, that’s really not a . . .
Mike: It would be difficult.
David: And not Belize, but anywhere outside the states pretty much.
Mike: Sure.
David: It’s going to be insured through Costa Rica, whatever.
Mike: Right. Awesome. If folks wanted to kind of get . . . one thing we always try to do on the show is make things actionable if folks want to get started or go apply that. Clearly, if they’re interested in your product, I’ll have you share with us where they can learn more about your product and talk to you about the investment opportunities because I think there are going to be some people that are interested in that.
If folks wanted to start effectively a similar business overseas or whatever, maybe share some of the challenges or things they need to consider. I know there’s a lot of them and I know we can’t discuss them all here in a few minutes. But just maybe share some of the things to consider to help encourage people to get outside of the box and do things like this.
David: Let me answer that in two questions in two segments. If you want to get more information on our properties, it’s really two easy ways. There’s a website we have called luxurybelizehomes.com. So, I’d encourage you to go to that luxurybelizehomes.com.
Then the other thing we offer is once a month, we offer a really discounted, we call it Discover Belize Tour. It’s four days, three nights, $995 for a couple and includes everything once you land in Belize City. That’s a great way, no pressure, not like it’s a big thing. It basically covers our cost that we negotiate down to come down, meet us. We’ll show you the area, show you island projects and beach homes. Very good education whether you’re looking to do something overseas in Belize or really anywhere. We’ll cover all the things.
Mike: Okay. We’ll add those links down below. For those of you that are watching, we’ll add them below the video here.
David: Then as far as things to avoid, things to be careful of, it’s really common sense that they can apply here in Texas or whatever market you’re in, but more so in foreign countries. You go to a development and they’ve got pretty renderings and you hear about what’s coming, do not assume anything is coming unless it’s there. If you don’t see it, don’t assume it’s going to be there next year or the year after or the year after that.
Things, again, move differently than they do in the states, financing, like I said, [inaudible 00:28:06] people will start something when they have the money, then they try to spend it and they run out and it’s half finished. You buy a condo that doesn’t have a pool and things like that. It’s not uncommon in Belize or many parts of the Caribbean. That’s a big one to watch out for. The other thing is just use common sense. When things sound too good to be true, they might be.
Then treat people down there with respect and you’ll get treated the same way. That’s one thing we’ve been very big on is to give back to the local community, treat our employees as good or better than we do here, offer them things they don’t expect, bring down iPhones and things like that for them. Little things in Belize go a long way.
Mike: Yeah. That’s awesome. Maybe share real high level . . . we probably should have said this up front, but I know some folks that travel to Belize and aside from buying a fractional share island, it’s just very cost-effective, it’s very cost-friendly from a travel standpoint. Maybe share kind of why Belize.
David: Belize is a very value destination. It’s still emerging. There are, just like with our homes, you get a five-bedroom house on the ocean for basically a $1.5 million to $2 million valuation. That lot would cost you that in Grand Cayman, for example.
The value is there, I think, from a rental standpoint. Our website has many beach homes and stuff, our islands. It sounds expensive, $14,000 a week, but it’s a five-room, sleeps 14 people, comes with a chef and a maid, a boat to go back and forth, you add that up, it’s a very good value. The food is there at the island. The drinks they go buy for you at the grocery store and bring them back. it’s becoming a very good value.
That’s what we’re seeing, a full service . . . the labor in Belize is inexpensive, so we really try to incorporate that in, have first class service. My wife called it the magic basket. Put your clothes in it on vacation, you come back and they’re all folded and clean. It’s amazing how many people love that when they come back with a suitcase full of clean clothes versus all the dirty clothes they’ve got to wash for a week when they get back.
Little stuff like that. We’ve really tried to keep raising the bar with chefs, great service, fully properly maintained pools and houses, and everything.
Mike: That’s awesome.
David: I think Belize offers that. It offers a very unique opportunity to not only have a great beach and scuba diving and fly fishing, but also a ton of jungle excursions from tubing to Mayan ruins to waterfalls, all basically an hour or so drive from the house.
Mike: Yeah. That’s awesome.
David: We’ve got some people that come down for a week and never leave the property, just hang out by the pool and the pier. Then we’ve got others that do something different every day for seven days.
Mike: Right. That’s great. Well, David, is there anything that we didn’t cover today? I know there’s a lot to tell about this opportunity and this business. We’ll add the links you mentioned down below for folks to learn more. Is there anything we didn’t cover today you want to talk about?
David: I think we did. We’re just trying to get the word out from Belize. I do feel it’s a very good opportunity, an emerging market, something people can get in now and not be on the tail end of something, not the bleeding edge but the cutting edge of a new emerging market. It’s only a two and a half-hour English speaking country from Texas.
Mike: Is that what it is, about two and a half hours from DFW Airport, maybe?
David: A DFW flight is two and a half hours. It’s two hours from Houston. So, very, very close, easy, direct flights.
Mike: Yeah. That’s awesome. And then when you’re in the country to get to your properties, for example, or the properties you’re working on, how far is that from an airport in Belize City?
David: From the Belize City Airport, it’s either a three-hour drive or a 30-minute little prop plane. They are in the process of building a brand new international airport that’s only six miles from our . . .
Mike: Oh wow, okay.
David: The runway is in. It’s happening. It’s not done yet. If that happens . . .
Mike: Like you said, don’t believe it until it’s there.
David: They probably hadn’t talked about it until now because it’s not there, but they spent a lot of money. It’s beyond . . . it will get done. It’s just a matter of what the date is.
Mike: Awesome. Well, David, thanks for spending time with us today. I definitely appreciate you being here. This is exciting stuff.
David: I appreciate it very much and hope that we’ve found a new fresh topic to at least talk about.
Mike: Yeah. Absolutely. Hopefully we get some folks that are interested that have heard this that are going to come your way and try and learn a little bit more. So, once again, we’ll put the links down below the video here. If you’re interested in learning more about David’s company from an investment standpoint or even a travel . . . like I said, I originally was interested from a travel standpoint. And now I’m fascinated by the investment opportunities because we’re always looking for new ways here to invest. and it just sounds like a lot cooler opportunity than going to buy a bunch of properties in the Midwest somewhere.
David: We need to get you down there soon.
Mike: The cool thing is my rental properties that are in the U.S., I don’t really want to go check on them. I don’t want to see them. I just feel like I don’t want to deal with them. Down there, I’m like, “I think we need to go check on our rental down there.”
David: Exactly.
Mike: Awesome. David, thanks for being with us, hope you have a great day. Everybody who’s listening, this was show number 364 with David Keener. Appreciate you being here with us and we’ll see you soon on another episode.
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