Investing with solo 401K accounts

Mike Hambright: Welcome to the flipnerd.com podcast. This is your host Mike Hambright, and on this show I will introduce you to VIPs in the real-estate investing industry, as well as other interesting entrepreneurs. Whose stories and experiences can help you take your business to the next level. We have three new show each week, which are available in the iTunes store, or by visiting flipnerd.com. So without further adieu, let’s get started.

Hey, it’s Mike Hambright with flipnerd.com. Welcome back for another exciting VIP interview, where I interview some of the most successful real estate investing experts and entrepreneurs in the industry to help you learn and grow.

Today I’m joined by Dmitriy Fomichenko, who’s a real estate investor, a broker, a mentor, and educator that realized over time that many real estate investors were successful but were caught in, kind of, the hamster wheel of transaction to transaction, and not strategically investing inside of their retirement accounts to truly build wealth for the long haul.

So today we’re going to discuss something that’s very different. It’s called a solo 401(k), and it’s different than a self-directed IRA. If you’re following the show, we’ve talked about self-directed IRAs a number of times. This is a unique vehicle called a solo 401(k), and it’s an interesting vehicle to help you to shelter your income from taxes and allow you to build wealth.

But before we get started with Dmitriy, let’s take a moment to recognize our featured sponsors.

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Hey, Dmitriy, welcome to the show.

Dmitriy Fomichenko: Thank you, Mike. It’s good to be here.

Mike Hambright: Yeah. Yeah, thanks for being here. As many of our guest are, you came recommended from Sensei Gilliland, who highly recommended that we talk to you. And I’m excited that you’re here today.

Dmitriy Fomichenko: Yes, we did a number of things together. He invited me to speak at his club meetings and we did some webinars. So yes, he’s a good friend.

Mike Hambright: Yeah, that’s good. That’s good. Well, as a real estate investor, personally what I feel over the last few years as I just turned 40, I don’t want to work as hard as I have in the past or want to be smarter about it. My wife and I are about to have our 10-year anniversary. We have a son that just turned seven. All these things are colliding to help me think much more than ever so before about building wealth and sheltering it from taxes, of course, legally, ways to kind of build wealth. And there’s so many people out there like you that have great knowledge that a lot of folks that are focused on just building their business and not thinking about wealth building maybe miss out on if they’re not talking to you.

Dmitriy Fomichenko: Yeah. Definitely. And we have a lot in common. I’m also 40.

Mike Hambright: A couple of young guys here. Couple of young guys.

Dmitriy Fomichenko: Yeah. Little bit older than yours, I have an eight-year-old daughter. And definitely just over the years looking at our experience to see how we can basically expand onto that, but the way I got started in real estate, I was just invited by a friend of mine from college to attend one of these real estate investment meetings. And that was a life changing experience for me, about three hours of education on real estate. And that evening I made a decision, “You know what? I’m going to own real estate. I’m never going to be a tenant. I’m going to be owning my property.”

It took me two years to accomplish that. And then after I did my first one, it took me almost another two years to buy the second one, but it was basically a life changing experience, and that’s what enabled me to continue on to invest more. And that’s how I got started in real estate.

Mike Hambright: Yeah. Yeah. And I gather, somewhere along the line, you realized that, “Hey, a lot of people don’t know about some of these vehicles that are out there to help shelter themselves from taxes and truly build wealth. And there’s some really unusual, I say unusual, little known unfortunately, ways to — especially for real estate investors and really all small business owners — use some retirement vehicles to really help build long-term wealth, and kind of help you get out of that rat race eventually. Right?

Dmitriy Fomichenko: Exactly. And see, for me, all this it was new, because I’m actually not from where you are. As you can see from my accent, and as you can hear, I’m from southern California. Just kidding. I actually emigrated here in the U.S. back from Russia in 1996.

Mike Hambright: OK.

Dmitriy Fomichenko: So I had to learn how to speak English. I had to basically get my education back. And by education, I’m an electro=mechanical engineer. I have my bachelor’s degree. And I started working in that field, but then I got laid off and I started looking for other opportunities. And that’s about around the year 2000. And that’s when I got involved in real estate investing, and also in financial planning.

Mike Hambright: OK.

Dmitriy Fomichenko: So I purchased my first couple of properties, and then I started working with a local real estate investing company as a mentor and educator, after I’d gotten several properties under my belt and basically helping other folks investing in properties.

Mike Hambright: OK.

Dmitriy Fomichenko: As I was talking to my clients, I was realizing that many of them had some things in common, and they would share it with me a lot. They actually had their real estate portfolios growing and successful, but their retirement accounts were not doing well. It was just a part and I could hear that. And I knew it was possible to use a retirement account to invest in real estate, so I basically started pulling all the information that I could possibly get my hands on and educated myself. Because of my past experience in financial planning, I was able to gather all the information. And combined with my real estate investment experience, I started helping just a few folks. Basically as a department, we can accompany to use retirement accounts.

And then there was an opportunity for me to just kind of branch out on my own, and I started Sense Financial. And all I do right now, is I help people use the retirement accounts that have been sinking maybe somewhere at the Schwab, or Fidelity, or Wells Fargo, retirement accounts that lost value over time, or maybe stayed flat, or been on the roller coaster and didn’t go anywhere over the years.

Mike Hambright: Yeah.

Dmitriy Fomichenko: And there are certain things that you can do where you can have a lot more control. And I’m sure you will agree with me that the stock market, you and I, we have no control over what’s going to happen tomorrow, a week from now, a year from now.

Mike Hambright: Absolutely.

Dmitriy Fomichenko: We can employ certain strategies, such as dollar cost average, and try to play the market and hope it’s going to work out well for us, but ultimately we have no control over what’s going to happen tomorrow with the market.

Mike Hambright: Yeah, and I think people feel that more than ever right now. I’m probably biased, because I am a real estate investor and I have that vehicle. But it’s funny, my undergrad is in finance specifically in investments, and I worked for a very large bank when I got out of college helping manage multi-billion dollar pension funds. There was something cool about working in investments, but then over time, you realize or I guess I’ve realized over that period of time or since the time I had that role or got out of college, that it just feels like a lot of financial engineering going on, things that you can’t control. There’s no such thing as a blue chip stock anymore. And at least with real estate, even though I almost never want to drive past my real estate properties for example, because I truly want to be passive and I have somebody else managing them, but I can. I know what it is. I could go over there in the matter of an hour if I needed to. And just to know that you’re investing in something that you know and that you understand is a physical asset. It just makes a big difference for, I think, a lot of folks. And I think a lot of people are realizing that.

Dmitriy Fomichenko: Yeah, that’s the key. You said that exactly right. You want to invest in things that you know and understand. And that doesn’t have to be real estate by any way.

Mike Hambright: Right.

Dmitriy Fomichenko: There are other investment. Real estate happen to be one of the most common investment vehicles that most of our clients utilize, but it doesn’t have to be real estate. You can be completely passive.

Mike Hambright: Right.

Dmitriy Fomichenko: You can invest. You can be a lender. You can actually use your 401(k) as a bank and you can lend money out to other people who buy in real estate, who invest in real estate, and you can make real nice returns. You can invest in physical metals in gold, and silver, and things like that. You can invest in businesses. So it just gives you a lot more opportunity, and ability to invest in something where you have a lot more control.

Mike Hambright: OK.

Dmitriy Fomichenko: When you’re buying a piece of real estate, you have the control of where you’re going to buy that and what market. You have the control of who’s going to manage that. You have the control what kind of tenant is going to be living there. You have the control what kind of improvements you’re going to do on the property, which will result in increased value of the property, increased income, and things like that.

Mike Hambright: Yeah. So, I know that you’re using a unique vehicle. And I think, even with self-directed IRAs, which I believe are more common, there is still a very small subset of the population that utilizes those or understands them. And so I’m guessing, for solo 401(k)s, it’s even less. But why don’t you tell us a little bit about what a solo 401(k) is, and maybe compare it to how it’s different or how it’s not from a self-directed IRA?

Dmitriy Fomichenko: Oh, sure. Yes. So the solo 401(k) is just like 401(k) that most people are familiar with. Most people, when they work for a company, the company offers a company sponsored plan of 401(k). Sometimes it’s 403(b) if they work for some kind of government agency, but a 401(k) at a company is set up and sponsored by the company and offered to their employees. A solo 401(k), just like the name implies, solo is designed for those people who are self-employed, or they have a small business without full-time employees.

Obviously I come into contact with many people like that. Many real estate investors are like this. People start a real estate investment business, and they flip properties, they set up a cooperation, and they are pretty much a one man show or maybe husband and wife. They have some subcontractors, but they don’t have any employees, and they perfectly qualify to setup something like this. And what they can do is use their. . . That can be the self employment, or business can be in any capacity. It can be just a sole proprietor.

To give you an example,a nurse who’s working for a hospital and she’s W-2 employed, but she also does some additional work. She works for a few other hospitals and they pay her with the 1099. So she’s not an employee there, and she actually receives 1099 income, and that makes her an independent contractor. She’s a sole proprietor. She doesn’t have any companies set up in just her name, so she qualifies for establishing sole 401(k).

Mike Hambright: OK.

Dmitriy Fomichenko: Now also, a partnership, an LLC, a corporation, so pretty much any type of business you’re qualified. That’s the qualification.

Mike Hambright: Did I hear you right? It can’t be a company that has other employees. Is that correct?

Dmitriy Fomichenko: Yes. So basically a solo 401(k) is set up for businesses that have no full-time employees. And let me define that for you. And actually, not me, let me tell you how the IRS defines that.

So the full-time employee, in the eyes of IRS, is somebody who works more than 1000 hours a year. That comes down to about 20 hours a week.

Mike Hambright: OK.

Dmitriy Fomichenko: So you can have a corporation or any other business and you can have part-time secretary or somebody else working less than 20 hours a week, and then you can legally exclude that person from the plan, because the way the plan is written, it can not have other employees in there.

Mike Hambright: OK.

Dmitriy Fomichenko: So that’s where the name solo comes from.

Mike Hambright: I see.

Dmitriy Fomichenko: Those are two requirements. You have to have a legitimate self-employment activity and you can not have any full-time employees. So those are the qualifications.

Mike Hambright: OK. So talk a little bit about, aside from that, in terms of the tax benefits, which I know that you’re going to have a lot to share on that, but how do those differ from a self-directed IRA?

Dmitriy Fomichenko: Well, I think the major difference between a self-directed IRA and solo 401(k) . . . And that by the way, I started my company by doing self-directed IRAs. So that’s all we did, but then later on, I personally learned about solo 401(k) myself. I was amazed of all the benefits that it offers. After preparing the basis, we actually were able to roll that out, and now offer that to our clients. And our business shifted. Probably within six months, we’ve gone from having 100% of doing IRAs to right now we’re doing probably 99% of our business is solo 401(k)’s.

Mike Hambright: Wow. OK.

Dmitriy Fomichenko: So this year we’ve only gotten a couple of clients who did IRAs because they just were not qualified for a solo 401(k), but because they are just so much better. So, to answer your question, the difference. The main difference with the IRA is that IRA is required to be held with a custodian. The IRS says that once you’ve set up an individual retirement account, it has to be held with a third-party custodian. And a custodian can be… There are some big names like Entrust, Equity Trust, and a few others that are actually a custodian. They hold onto your money, and you have control over that, but you have to go through this middle man. And you have to tell them, where do you want your money to be invested, and that’s how you control it.

So, every time you’re trying to make an investment or you need to simply pay the expenses, you have to submit certain paperwork and submit to the custodian. They take a few days to process that, and then the expense is paid or transaction is executed. So there is a certain process you need to go through.

Mike Hambright: OK.

Dmitriy Fomichenko: Now a solo 401(k) on the other hand does not require a custodian, so that’s one of the major differences and one of the major benefits that solo 401(k) offers is that it does not require a custodian. So it’s set up as a trust. Solo 401(k) is a trust, with you, the client, being a trustee. And as a trustee, you can go to a bank, open up a checking account in the name of your solo 401(k). Your solo 401(k) will have its own tax ID number. So we will apply with the IRS for EIM. You open up an account at any bank of your choice in the name of your solo 401(k), then you fund it.

There is two ways you can fund it by making a contribution to it — and we’ll talk about that, that’s another major benefit and difference — or by transferring existing retirement account into that. And pretty much any type of retirement account can be transferred into a solo 401(k) with one exception.

There is one exception. It’s Roth IRA. Unfortunately if you have a Roth IRA and it’s after-tax money, after-tax contributions, IRS says that you’re not allowed to transfer that into solo 401(k)

By making a contribution to it, and we’ll talk about that. That’s another major benefit and difference.

Mike Hambright: Sure.

Dmitriy Fomichenko: Or by transferring existing retirement account into that. And pretty much any type of retirement account can be transferred into a solo 401(k), with one exception. There is one exception, it’s a Roth IRA.

Mike Hambright: OK.

Dmitriy Fomichenko: So unfortunately if you have a Roth IRA and it’s after-tax money, after-tax contributions, IRS says that you are not allowed to transfer that into solo 401(k) but any other accounts, a traditional IRA, SEP IRA, simple IRA. If you have employer sponsored plans such as 401(k), 457, those can also be transferred. As long as they are with the previous employer.

Mike Hambright: OK. And is there a Roth version of the solo 401(k)?

Dmitriy Fomichenko: There is a Roth version, yes. We’ll talk about that more.

Mike Hambright: Yeah, OK great.

Dmitriy Fomichenko: I’d like to cover that because it’s a major advantage. So again that’s how it is set up and that’s how it is funded.

Mike Hambright: OK. So talk a little bit about contribution levels, how those compare, which I think is probably one of the other main differences.

Dmitriy Fomichenko: Yeah, that’s actually a good point. The contributions, unlike with an IRA . . . If you have a traditional IRA, the contribution level to that is $5500 with additional $1000 over catch-up contributions if you’re over 50. Now with solo 401(k), your contribution limit is up to $52,000 for single participant. And if you’re over 50, then you’ve got additional $5500 in catch-up contribution, making the total limit $57,500. So if you are a husband and wife business and your business is successful and you’re making money, potentially you can shelter over $100,000, up to $113,000. In your income from taxes, you can lower your taxable income by sheltering those funds into retirement account.

Mike Hambright: Wow.

Dmitriy Fomichenko: So that’s a great tax sheltering vehicle. I actually work with several accounting firms that use us as a resource to help their clients with tax planning, with lowering their tax liability.

Mike Hambright: Yeah. Are there any restrictions on… Let’s say that your company only made $52,000. Can you contribute 100% of that into this account?

Dmitriy Fomichenko: Oh, yeah. So now we’re getting in little bit more detail, and I know this might be confusing to some of the listeners but let me just cover that, and if anybody has any questions, we have all this information on our website.

Mike Hambright: Sure. OK.

Dmitriy Fomichenko: Basically, first $17,500 can be up to 100% of your contributions. There’s two components when you contribute to solo 401(k) and that’s why the limit is so high, because the first component, you put a hat as an employee, because if you own business or are self-employed, you’re wearing two hats. You’re wearing a hat of an employee and you’re wearing a hat of a business owner.

So as an employee, you can put first $17,500. And that can be up to 100% of your business. So if you are in a part-time business and you have a full-time job elsewhere, and you only made $20,000 in a year, most of that can be put into 401(k).

Mike Hambright: OK.

Dmitriy Fomichenko: Now on top of that, depending on your business structure, it’s 20% to 25% of your net earnings.

Mike Hambright: OK.

Dmitriy Fomichenko: So there is a percentage.

Mike Hambright: I see.

Dmitriy Fomichenko: There is a formal entity that you use, and we actually have a calculator. You can just plug in your numbers for the year and it will tell you what the maximum allowed contribution is.

Mike Hambright: OK. Comparatively with a self-directed account, you’re capped at $5500 per year. Is that right?

Dmitriy Fomichenko: With self-directed IRA, it’s $5500 with additional catch-up of $1000. And with solo 401(k), the limit is $52,000 with additional $5500 in catch-up.

Mike Hambright: OK. Now talk a little bit about the ease of using that and maybe how that differs from a self-directed IRA, the ease of using it in terms of investing. Are there any differences where you can purchase your own properties or you can only lend to people other than yourself or direct family members or are there any restrictions? How is that different from a self-directed IRA?

Dmitriy Fomichenko: Yeah. Basically the solo 401(k) itself, you can open one up if you go to a major bank. For example, Wells Fargo. If you go to Wells Fargo, they’ll probably open up a regular solo 401(k) for you, but the problem is, just like with any other retirement account, the custodian that places all the restrictions.

Mike Hambright: Right.

Dmitriy Fomichenko: So whether you have an IRA or open up a solo 401(k) at Wells Fargo or Fidelity, they as a custodian, they place certain language in your plan documents restricting you from making other investments besides those that they offer to you.

Mike Hambright: RIght.

Dmitriy Fomichenko: That’s their goal. That’s why they offer those retirement accounts, because they want you to invest in their investments.

Mike Hambright: Right.

Dmitriy Fomichenko: Now what we do is something quite different. We actually don’t offer any investments. We just create the plan. And our plan documents does not have any restrictions on investment documents besides those that are placed by the IRS. And so I’m just assuming that your listeners are an educated crowd and are familiar with the IRA restrictions with some of the things with IRA.

So basically the list of allowed investments does not exist. The IRS says that you can pretty much invest in anything that you want, except… So there is a few things that you are not allowed to invest in, and those are the restrictions, but you can invest in real property. You can invest in commercial property. You can invest in tax liens and tax deeds. You can invest in trust deeds. You can actually be a bank. You can lend money to others, whether it’s a long-term loan or a short-term, a loan that you find enough flip to somebody. You can do all kinds of things. As long as you don’t violate any prohibited transactions and don’t do anything that IRS tells you you can not do, anything other than that, you can invest in.

Mike Hambright: OK. Since there’s no custodian involved, what is the typical burden on an account owner to track their activities ultimately that has to be reported out at some point?

Dmitriy Fomichenko: Sure. That’s a good question. Some people are concerned, “Well, does that mean now I’m going to have to do all kinds of additional work because I don’t have a custodian?”

Mike Hambright: Right.

Dmitriy Fomichenko: Well, the truth is, no, you don’t have to do any additional work, because let’s assume that you’re using the retirement account and you invest in a property, because most people are probably familiar with that. So if you’re buying a real property, let’s assume that you’re doing just under your own name, not in the retirement account.

Mike Hambright: OK.

Dmitriy Fomichenko: Well when you sign a purchase contract, you’re going to keep that on file. Right? You’re not going to get rid of that.

Mike Hambright: Right.

Dmitriy Fomichenko: When you receive rental income, you’re going to keep statements from your property management. If there is an expense that you need to pay, you’re gonna keep that on file. You’re doing exactly the same record keeping as an administrator of your own plan. You’re not gonna have to do anything else. The only thing that you will have to do is once your retirement account value, a combined value of your plan exceeds $250,000, there is a two-page IRS form called 5500-EZ that you will be required to file with the IRS once a year. That is a very simple form, most people can do that, or you can the help of your accountant to help you with that.

All there is is that the value of your plan at the beginning of the year, the value of your plan at the end of the year, and then any contributions that you made. So it’s that simple.

Mike Hambright: OK. Wow.

Dmitriy Fomichenko: It’s really simple. And you have to file that if your plan is over 250. A lot of people who start out, they’re below 250 and you don’t have to do any filing at all.

Mike Hambright: Sure. I guess we could probably talk about this for a lot longer than the time we have today, but talk real fast about the benefits of the Roth version of this.

Dmitriy Fomichenko: Yeah, that’s a good question. Solo 401(k) also comes with a Roth component. What that is is the plan allows you to make contributions after-tax just like a Roth IRA.

Mike Hambright: Right.

Dmitriy Fomichenko: Again the limit of Roth IRA is $5500. With solo 401(k), the Roth component limit is $17,500. And if you’re over 50, you’ve got the additional $5500, which makes a total of $23,000. Now when you invest or contribute money into your Roth 401(k), then all of the investment is done tax free. Obviously you already paid taxes on your contributions. You can invest tax free. And then when you take out the distributions, you’re not going to have to pay any taxes on that.

I mean, think about this. Let me just use my own example here.

Mike Hambright: Yes, please.

Dmitriy Fomichenko: I actually just purchased a property in my 401(k) a year ago, and I made contributions into my Roth account. I had about $55,000 in there, and I used leverage. So I actually financed property in Phoenix market. And by the way, Sensei helped me rehab their properties. So that property, I paid 110 for it. It’s already valued about 160, and I’m 40 years, I told you, so we’re the same age. I got another 20 years to go. So my goal is to grow that $55,000 to a half a million dollars over the next 20 years. I looked at some numbers. Conservatively I can do that.

Mike Hambright: Yeah, that’s great.

Dmitriy Fomichenko: So think about this. Does it make sense for you to pay taxes on the seed or pay taxes on the harvest? But if you just bare with me for a second here, this is not just a difference whether you’re going to pay taxes on $50,000 or half a million dollars later. Once I turn 60 and I have a half a million dollars in my Roth 401(k), I’m not just going to take a half a million dollars out and not pay taxes on it. I’m not going to do that. What I’m going to do is I’m going to take a half a million dollars and I’m going to invest that into some income producing asset for me.

For example, I can buy a fourplex that will generate $55,000 a year for me. So I can keep that asset, I can just take $50,000 out of my Roth 401(k), tax free, for the rest of my life.

Mike Hambright: Yeah.

Dmitriy Fomichenko: Without touching a principle. So the result can be huge.

Mike Hambright: Yeah, absolutely. And you said something a second ago I want to clarify. So you can actually, the trust that owns your solo 401(k), can actually borrow. You can actually take out a loan. Is that correct?

Dmitriy Fomichenko: Yes. You can take a loan just like with self-directed IRA. You can take a loan, you can finance a property, that’s actually brings another benefit. OK. Comparing IRA with solo 401(k), you can finance property in your IRA.

Mike Hambright: OK.

Dmitriy Fomichenko: Let’s say you’re buying a property for $100,000. You’re going to put $50,000 down and you finance $50,000. The loan must be non-recourse, because IRS does not allow you to provide personal guarantee for the loans. It has to be non-recourse. Non-recourse means that the lender who’s giving you the loan does not have any recourse against you personally or against your IRA, but the issue with the non-recourse loan inside of an IRA is that the portion of the income that comes from the finance portion of the property will be subject to UDFI, and that’s unrelated debt-financed income, which is a type of UBIT, unrelated business income tax. And that’s subject about 35% taxation inside of your IRA.
Now here’s the kicker. If you do that inside of a 401(k) just like I did, I financed $50,000 of the purchase price, there is no UBIT tax.

Mike Hambright: Wow.

Dmitriy Fomichenko: I will leverage the real estate. So another benefit of using 401(k), with leverage to buy investment real estate.

Mike Hambright: Wow. Well I know there’s a lot more to it, and we’ve covered as much as we can in a half hour. If folks want to learn more, and in all honesty I do, so we’ll set up some time to talk separately.

Dmitriy Fomichenko: I just wanted to mention very quickly, just one last benefit I think is very important. The 401(k) comes with the loan feature, participant loan feature. Which actually gives you that ability to borrow personally from your 401(k) up to $50,000. So if you ever need some cash for whatever. Maybe you have a transaction that otherwise will be prohibited, might be with disqualified person. You can actually pull out up to $50,000 from your 401(k) tax-free, penalty-free, and use that for any reason. You just have to pay it back within five years.

Mike Hambright: Oh, wow. OK. That’s pretty good.

Dmitriy Fomichenko: That’s not available with an IRA.

Mike Hambright: Yeah. That’s awesome. Well, if folks want to learn more, or are interested in Sense Financial, or are interested in talking to you about pro’s and con’s, or even setting up accounts, where do they go?

Dmitriy Fomichenko: They can just go to our website, which is sensefinancial.com.

Mike Hambright: OK.

Dmitriy Fomichenko: And sense is spelled like “common sense”. So sensefinancial.com. Or they can just call up our office directly, which is 949-228-9394.

Mike Hambright: OK. And we’ll add the phone number and links down below the video as well, for folks that want to get a hold of you. But that’s great. I’m excited for folks that are listening to this. And hopefully, there are people that got excited about the ability to sock some money away, and build some long term wealth. And if you’re interested, go check out sensefinancial.com.

Dmitriy Fomichenko: Great. Yeah, I get excited myself whenever I talk about this. Every time.

Mike Hambright: Who doesn’t get excited about minimizing your tax bill?

Dmitriy Fomichenko: Yes.

Mike Hambright: So, great. Well Dmitriy, hey, thanks so much for your time today. I wish you the best. And I look forward to talking to you again, very soon.

Dmitriy Fomichenko: Sure. It was great chatting with you. And thanks to everybody for joining us.

Mike Hambright: OK. Have a great day my friend.

Narrator: Thanks for joining us on today’s flipnerd.com podcast. To listen to more of our shows and hear from incredible guests, please access all of our podcasts in the iTunes store. You can also watch the video versions of our shows by visiting us at flipnerd.com.