Many real estate investors pigeon hole themselves into areas of focus or exit strategies and forget that they are in the business of making money. The reality is that most real estate investors should be focused on ways to monetize every opportunity that comes their way. Successful investors have a toolbox full of tools that they can pull out to make more deals work. Alex Joungblood shares more with us during this FlipNerd.com Flip Show interview…don’t miss it!
Mike Hambright: Welcome to the Flipnerd.com Podcast. This is your host, Mike Hambright, and on this show I’ll introduce you to VIPs in the real estate investing industry as well as other interesting entrepreneurs whose stories and experiences can help you take your business to the next level. We have three new shows each week which are available in the ITunes store or by visiting Flipnerd.com. So without further ado, let’s get started.
Hey, it’s Mike Hambright with Flipnerd.com, welcome back for another exciting VIP interview where I interview the most successful real estate investing experts in the country and entrepreneurs in our industry to help you learn and grow. Today I’m joined by Alex Joungblood who’s a fellow podcaster; he’s a real estate investor and a coach. His website is Faircashoffer.com where he buys houses through and he’s an all around awesome guy. Today we’re going to talk about being a real estate opportunist, and that is not getting hung up on whether you’re a wholesaler or a retailer or whether you only keep houses as rentals. It is focusing on doing whatever you need to do with the deal to make money and monetize those deals. This is actually the same philosophy that I’ve used for years and I’m excited that Alex is going to talk about it because we have a lot of common. Before we get started though, let’s take a moment to recognize our featured sponsored.
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Mike Hambright: Hey Alex, welcome to the show.
Alex Joungblood: Hey man, thanks for having me on.
Mike Hambright: Yeah, glad you’re here. I’ve known about you for a long time on the peripheral because of your Facebook Group the Wholesaling Houses Fulltime Group which is a pretty large group. So we’ve never actually physically met.
Alex Joungblood: No. That’s how it is.
Mike Hambright: Even at this point we’re on Skype so we haven’t physically met. Before we get started though, why don’t you tell us a little bit about your background, how long you’ve been a real estate investor and then maybe tell us a little bit about your Facebook group as well.
Alex Joungblood: Sure. I got interested in the Real Estate business in 2004. I was married in 2003 and interestingly enough when you’re first married you don’t really have any money, and you’re in an apartment complex and you don’t have any money for cable, so what do you watch? Infomercials. You watch Carlton Sheets and you see some of the other guys out there. And at the point when I was first married I didn’t have an actual job yet. Even though my wife did, she was actually a private school teacher, and I was still waiting to find what I was going to be able to do to contribute to the marriage, right?
Mike Hambright: Yeah, yeah.
Alex Joungblood: So at home I’m watching infomercials and seeing what’s going on with that and kind of was like, wow, that would be kind of cool if I could make something like that happen. I’m sure my wife would really appreciate that, so Carlton Sheets was the first guy I looked at and Ron Lagrand as well. The reason I came down to this area was actually to go to Graduate school along the seminary field, believe it or not, and this guy was also in the seminary with me and mentioned that he had some courses from Ron Lagrand. It was funny; it was kind of a secretive thing. It was kind like, “hey, I’ve got these courses, don’t tell anybody, meet me in the parking lot and I’ll give them to you.” So he did. I think it was the “For Sale by Owner” course and the “Pretty Houses” course if you want to call it that, and I started getting into those. At the time I really had no idea what I was looking at. I had no idea what a mortgage was, what a refinance was, just how you could flip a house that you didn’t own or how you could even monetize it. I’m like, OK, so you find these houses and you found another investor, but how does this whole thing work?
So through reading that and getting moving, I guess you could say that he really helped me along the way at first. He kind of said, if you have a house let me know about it and we’ll work on it and we’ll split the deal. So I kind of went along that way, and that’s pretty standard with what people do. They’ll find somebody and they’ll treat them as a birddog and they’ll kind of bring them under their wing in hopes that they’ll find them a deal. My first deal that I did along those lines was a lease option deal and he actually brought this deal to me. I don’t know if you remember back in the day, but there was a site that had to do with wholesalers listing their deals, but it was before the times of Rehab List and stuff like that. I think it was one of Ron Lagrand’s sites, actually. There was a listing on there that he put there that was a lease option deal he was looking to assign. The tenant was in there already, he put the whole deal together, and I actually went with him to the house and watched him sell the deal to get the tenant in there. Unbeknownst to me this was that actual deal he was trying to assign to somebody for like $1,500 so that he could step out of it. I didn’t have any money really at the time but I came up with the $1,500 and gave it to him and he assigned the deal to him and now, yay, I’m in the real estate business, right? [Laughs]
Mike Hambright: Right.
Alex Joungblood: So now this deal, the tenant buyer that was in the deal, and if you know anything about lease options and how it works is basically you get a sandwich lease option. So you get the homeowner to do a lease option with them but then you bring a tenant buyer and do a lease option with them. So you would make the cash flow in between the two payments of the mortgage with the bank and the homeowner between the new tenant that you have and then also on the resale side of things. So if you have it under contract for $70,000 with the homeowner you’re going to have it under contract for $85,000 with the new tenant buyer, and that’s how you would make your money. I’m thinking $1,500 to make $15,000 sounds pretty good to me. So this tenant buyer it actually turns out was in bankruptcy, so the chances are they’re not going to be able to get a finance out of this deal, right?
Mike Hambright: Right.
Alex Joungblood: And we actually got to the point where this tenant buyer was actually going to buy the house from me. I think her mom was going to refinance or something and give her the cash to buy the house for herself or something along these lines. But this tenant buyer was very smart because she knew that the lot behind the house, through the chain of title, had not been conveyed in the proper way. So she actually went to closing table ready to buy and walked out after she looked at the legal description on the deed and said, oh, this doesn’t include the lot behind the house, and she stayed in the house and did not pay me rent the whole time during this, telling me I had to fix this, this was my problem, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Mike Hambright: Yeah.
Alex Joungblood: So long story short I had to go down the lines of evicting her and getting her out all along really not having hardly any money and dealing with this whole thing and going to court. Long story short the judge split the baby and actually made me give her deposit back which I had not received any deposit because I was assigned the deal. So he took her deposit out of the rent that she owed me and that was my first real estate deal. The way I actually got out of that deal was I wholesaled it. I put a newspaper ad in the real estate for selling properties and I wholesaled the deal and made like $15,000 from the $70,000 to the $85,000 or whatever it was, and got out of it. So it was the first bumpy experience. After that I thought maybe this wasn’t for me so I went into the sales arena. I actually started an independent dealership with ADT, the security company, and did decently well with that but realized that I built myself another job along with my partner that I had and really wasn’t a fan of that. I was doing some little deals here and there but in 2008 I realized that if I could just put this together and spend all my time doing real estate maybe I can break away from this and achieve the freedom that I’m looking for.
Mike Hambright: Yeah, yeah.
Alex Joungblood: So in 2008 I made that split and have been full time ever since.
Mike Hambright: That’s great. What’s interesting is, for a lot of new people, and I know you talk to a lot of new people because I know there are a lot of new people in your Facebook group who ask a lot of new people questions, which is fine, everybody starts there, but the learning curve is so high for your first few deals. I’ve done hundreds of deals and you’ve done a lot of deals and we’re still learning all the time. You have to always learn. But I think for people to just get over that hurdle, you’ve got to give it to people who got over that hurdle and figured it out because it can be a steep climb.
Alex Joungblood: You’ve got to pay your dues along the way; you’ve got to pay.
Mike Hambright: So there are so many people that do what you did and they never come back. They’re like, oh, this is how it is, I would never do that again, but credit to you for coming back, so that’s great.
Alex Joungblood: Yeah. That’s my history.
Mike Hambright: So tell us a little bit about your Facebook group. You’ve got something like 11,000 people in your group or something, right? It’s turned into a huge group and it’s very active.
Alex Joungblood: Yeah, there are 11,000 people. It’s actually a great place where wholesalers and other rehabbers and just people in real estate in general can get together and share what’s going on in their business and ask questions and get information and just really get a feel for what it’s really like to be in the business from a real, non-hypy standpoint. You can see everybody talking about what they’re doing, a lot of people post deals, a lot of people post checks for motivation, and there’s nothing behind those checks. It’s not, like, hey, here’s my check, by the way, enter your name and email address over here kind of thing. So everybody is just being real. The reason I started that group, like we had talked about, was because I wanted a common spot where people could talk about what they’re doing in their business without having to tell all the people around them locally how much money they’re making or what their journey is. I just wanted a spot where people could do that with that privacy and with that capability. It’s really taken off.
Mike Hambright: Yeah, I think a lot of people appreciate it. It’s not anonymous because it’s tied to your Facebook account, but it’s a kind of a safe place where you can ask questions and have people chime back in. Some people will get dozens of people to respond to a question on your page.
Alex Joungblood: Oh, yeah. It’s a great place to share your successes and challenges, but if you’ve got a question there are threads that are 100 comments deep. So there’s a lot of interaction and very little spam. I’m pretty big on making sure that gets out quick if that’s an issue.
Mike Hambright: So for those that aren’t familiar with it, it’s Wholesaling Houses Full Time.
Alex Joungblood: Wholesaling Houses Full Time, yes. Just go to Facebook search for it.
Mike Hambright: It’s a private group so you have to request access to it, but unless you’re part of the riff raff Alex will probably let you in, right?
Alex Joungblood: That’s right.
Mike Hambright: So we’re going to talk about just kind of being an opportunist today. It’s the same philosophy that I have always had. People says, do you primarily wholesale, do you do this, do you do that, and my answer has always been, I let the deal dictate what I’m going to do with it. I think there’s a challenge with new people having too many tools in their tool chest to get too creative, because that can really bog you down if you don’t know how to do all those things, so some of it is getting some experience and learning how to do lease options and other things that people do if that’s not what you primarily do.
But I think that we have the same philosophy in that it’s important to find different ways to monetize a deal which will allow you to do more deals and therefore make more money.
Alex Joungblood: Absolutely, absolutely, and I go back to Ron Lagrand again. You have to become a transaction engineer, is what he says.
Mike Hambright: So talk a little bit about your general philosophy on being an opportunist and finding any way that you can to monetize deals.
Alex Joungblood: Yeah. The main thing is, a lot of people get into the business and they think, I’m going to be a wholesaler, I want to flip deals, I want to assign contracts, and I find that that can be a very limiting thing. You can limit yourself greatly because there are a lot more opportunities out there. One of the examples that we’ve talked about before is, let’s say, for instance, in a land development situation, a deal that you can buy and maybe only assign for $5,000 or $10,000 could really be worth $50,000, $60,000, $70,000 if you’re able to monetize from the standpoint of putting a new construction house there or putting two new construction houses or putting four new construction there. Then it becomes even bigger. Now we’re talking about $250,000, $300,000 if you’re able to put people there and make that work.
That’s a pretty advanced example of it but that’s a pretty good example because you’re really losing out on that money if you can’t put that together. And to be honest, I don’t really know that much about new construction and development but I know people that know things about that, and if you align yourself with the right people, then you put yourself in that position to be able to have success with that. A more simple example would be from, I would say, a wholetailing standpoint. You and I talked about that as well. Wholetailing is when you are taking a wholesale deal and pretty much retailing it. So it’s a combination of wholesale and retail. To do that all you need to be able to have access to is just maybe a little bit of capital. What would you sale the average purchase price for you is where you’d be able to wholetail something?
Mike Hambright: I’m in the Dallas market. I’ll tell you a little bit more about some of the wholetail stuff that I do but I really like the first time home buyer space because I feel that people will value the repairs differently than I do because I have to pay somebody to do everything. They may be looking it as a year of weekend projects and lots of beer and pizza for my buddies, and I’m thinking the texture is a buck a square foot, I’m going to have to put down baseboard and it’s this much per square foot. I’m just calculating everything because I’m not going to lift a hammer. I don’t do anything.
Alex Joungblood: That’s right.
Mike Hambright: When I see wallpaper that has to be peeled I’m thinking, OK, it’s a buck a foot to peel it, then I’m going to have to texture it, then I’m going to have to paint it, and people don’t see it that way. They’re like, that’s probably going to suck to pull that off but they don’t consider their opportunity cost, a lot of first time home buyers.
Alex Joungblood: Absolutely.
Mike Hambright: But I get it. It’s the same people who are maybe changing their own oil and cutting their own hair, things that I also don’t do, but there was a time when I was young and didn’t have a lot of money and I did more things that I don’t do myself now, but there’s a market for that so I think, like you said, if you could find ways to find a buyer that’s willing to pay more than a traditionally trained real estate investor, that’s where you can make a bigger spread.
Alex Joungblood: Absolutely. And there’s other ways to do it without capital. You’ve got to be careful, check with your real estate professionals, check with your attorneys and all that type of thing, but you can list a property as contract owner if you’re able to do that in your market. So without taking a deal down and closing it you can list a property on MLS as contract owner disclosing that and you can wholetail in that sense. My first big wholetail that I did was a probate deal, actually. I bought a deal for $80,000 and the house was actually just dated. It was in good shape but it was dated. I walked through it and I was looking and I was like, OK, we’re going to have to redesign this kitchen. It was kind of interesting because the kitchen didn’t have many cabinets; it had countertops set on top of bricks in almost like an L-shape. It was kind of weird and I was thinking it’s going to be really expensive to rip all this out and put a new kitchen in, but the carpets were good, the bathrooms were dated but good, and there were a lot of nice little things to it, I guess you could say. But when I ran the numbers and I said, OK, to do my normal rehab on this thing I’m going to spend $40,000, $50,000 probably. When you get into a house and start removing things it’s kind of like, where do you stop? You just keep doing, doing, doing and you might as well just go the whole way with it. But I looked at it and I said, OK, to do this project it’s probably going to take me 60 to 90 days, the normal rehab situation, and all this extra money to do it, and I probably might end up making $10,000 to $15,000 more than if I were to list this as is for a big discounted price.
Mike Hambright: Yeah.
Alex Joungblood: Here’s the interesting thing. The sweet spot is trying to find that spread, because if I was to retail it after doing all this work I probably could have got $205,000, $210,000 maybe, right? However, I listed it for $149,900, so anybody who’s going out into that market looking for a brand new rehabbed house, they’re going to be upping that to that low 200s number, but if I’m at $149,900, or was it $144,900, I can’t remember, but you’re in a spot now where you’re making it a lot more affordable for somebody and if it’s livable they can get in there and do what they want to do, and that’s what I did. I listed it for $80,000, I actually closed on it, and we sold it for $144,000 or $149,000 or whatever it was, and it didn’t take long. It was like two weeks.
Mike Hambright: Yeah, my philosophy or my belief has always been that, especially if you’re in a good… so there are a couple of opportunities. One is going after the first time home buyer that values sweat equity; they’re willing to do the work if it saves them money.
Alex Joungblood: Right.
Mike Hambright: There’s an opportunity there. There’s an opportunity for people who want to get into a nice neighborhood but they can’t quite afford it, and so like you said, if it’s livable… the other thing you’ve got to consider is if they can get a loan on the house. You’ve really got to consider if they can get an FHA loan on a house, especially if it’s at a lower price point. That’s primarily who you’re going to attract, a FHA buyer, so if the house has foundation problems or a leaking roof or those things, they’re not going to be able to get financing on it. And knowing a number of appraisers, I know that they don’t look at wallpaper and say, that’s going to be $2.50 a foot to peel it, texture it and paint it, they just say it’s kind of dated, I’m going to knock off $1,000 for the whole house because it’s got a lot of wallpaper.
Alex Joungblood: Right.
Mike Hambright: I see a house full of wallpaper as $6,000, $8,000 of peeling it, retexturing and painting and they just don’t knock that much value off. I give an analogy of, and some people have probably heard this before, but I’m kind of a sucker for a deal. I’m trying to change this mentality. Sometimes I’ll go into a clothing store and I’ll go, oh, there’s the clearance section, and I go over there and next thing I know I’ve got a shirt that’s not quite the color I want, it’s a little bit tight, but hey, I’m about to lose some weight anyway. You just find a way to justify, it’s half price, I got a really good deal, and then it hangs in my closet for two years with the tag still on it and I get rid of, and of course it was a terrible deal then. But I think there are people who do that with a house. They say, wow, normally this would be $200,000, but $150,000, yeah, it needs a little bit of work but it will allow us to get in, it will allow us to do it the way we want to, and they justify the value of that deal and maybe overlook some things that you and I don’t look past if we’re going to have to retail it because we’re going to have to take care of those things.
Alex Joungblood: Oh, absolutely. And like you said about FHA and financing, that’s a huge part of that wholetailing end if making sure you understand that financing on the back end. Here, in Virginia, we have a lot of VA so we have VA financing and we love VA financing because there’s no seasoning. That means, now, I can sell a house literally tomorrow after I buy it just as long as it meets appraisal guidelines.
Mike Hambright: That’s great.
Alex Joungblood: And on that house the home inspector didn’t, but the appraiser came on out after and made me replace the roof on the house.
Mike Hambright: Yeah, that’s one challenge I’ve had with VA loans is that they tend to be a little more strenuous on lender required repairs.
Alex Joungblood: Right, right, and that’s fine, the homeowners get a new roof and it satisfied the situation and I could still sell the house very, very quickly. So VA is a good loan. FHA, now there used to be that 90 day flipping clause in there, however, you can still get past that as long as you have two decent appraisals. Have you had any experience with that?
Mike Hambright: Yeah, they typically still… they usually require two appraisals, and here’s a tip for everybody if you’re listening, I never pay for the second appraisal. They’ll come to you and they’ll say the buyer, per FHA guidelines, the buyer can’t pay for two appraisals, but it doesn’t say that the seller has to. But usually their agent will come to you and say, oh, the buyer can’t pay for it so you have to, and I usually say, well, why don’t you pay for it? We didn’t require that they use FHA and we didn’t require that they choose that lender so how about that lender pays for it? What we do with every FHA deal that we sell is, the day after… this is a tip that I usually don’t tell people, I don’t normally share this stuff on my podcast… but the day after the option period ends, so if they had a 10 day option period where they’re going to do inspections and things, so once that’s passed, we have a canned letter that we send to the lender that says, thanks for financing this person, by the way, just want to let you know that we’re real estate investors and we buy houses at a deep discount that has nothing to do with the value of the house now. Here’s why we buy them, usually the person was in a distressed situation or the house needed a lot of work, but I’ve attached a copy of all of our receipts and we did $30,000 worth of work, and in the instance that you require a second appraisal, just want to let you know that it’s our policy that we don’t pay for that one because we didn’t choose that the buyer use FHA and we didn’t choose that the buyer use you as a lender.
Alex Joungblood: Did you just say, after doing $30,000 worth of work? So this is one that you worked on?
Mike Hambright: Yeah, this is one that we rehabbed. We buy a lot of pretty distressed houses so we tend to do a lot of work when we do a full retail on them, so we’ll just tell them, this is how much we spent and here’s all of our receipts and this is how we’re justifying our price, not that we should have to justify our price because we have a willing buyer and a willing seller, but you know how lenders are. So we basically just say, hey, it’s not our problem. Because before we did that, we would be two days before closing and they would say, oh, we didn’t know that you were flipping the house, we didn’t know that you were selling it for a lot more than you bought it for, but it’s like, yeah, look at all the risk we took and look at all we put into it and we find ourselves trying to justify our profits or all of our risk or whatever. I shouldn’t have to justify it, but now instead of waiting for it to happen, which it almost always happens, we just be upfront about it we say here’s the deal. Then we never get somebody that comes back two days before and says, oh, we need a second appraisal because you’re flipping it. It’s like, no, we told you that three weeks ago, and we don’t have as many problems as we used to just by being more upfront about it.
Alex Joungblood: Usually being honest and upfront helps in a lot of situations.
Mike Hambright: It’s not that we were ever being dishonest, we’re just more forward on any guidelines they may have. One of the biggest problems that we have with lenders, typically, is not so much what the FHA guideline is but that individual lender has its own guidelines because they’re just trying to package these things and sell them off. So they usually have some extra requirements in there that are sometimes a burden.
Alex Joungblood: Yeah. So financing is a big thing when you’re dealing with the wholetail situation and you’ve got to learn how to deal with the different people, the different lenders, the VA, FHA… USDA, have you ever seen a loan by them?
Mike Hambright: I know they exist. I’m in a heavily populated area so I don’t recall… we may have done a couple on the outskirts of town.
Alex Joungblood: I’ve done a few of those.
Mike Hambright: So kind of in the vein of being an opportunist, I think the general discussion is, hey, if you’re just wholesaling everything and if you’re just going to wholesale, you might be leaving some money on the table.
Alex Joungblood: Yeah, absolutely.
Mike Hambright: In fact, there are probably deals that you can’t even do that you could do otherwise, because you always have to think about how much spread can I have and still leave enough meat on the bones for the next guy?
Alex Joungblood: Right.
Mike Hambright: So I guess a hypothetical example is, if people in your market are only buying at 70% of AVR less repairs, and this person’s pay off is 72% and they’re willing to walk away with nothing but you’ve got to pay 72%, if you can’t find another wholesaler in your market to pay more than that for it then you would typically walk away from that deal where as if you could retail it or even wholetail it like we’re talking about, then you could sell it at 100% of AVR and it opens up another opportunity for you to make money there.
Alex Joungblood: Well, it comes down to marketing too and your ROI on your marketing. We spend so much money on marketing out there with post cards and the internet and driving traffic to websites in order to get people to say, yeah, I want to sell my house, and if you’re able to crack that market so to speak now your cost per lead or your cost per deal goes down because now you’re maximizing that, and that’s huge. You’re getting more bang for your buck on your marketing. If you’re spending $1,500 to make a deal happen, now maybe it’s $750 and again, that’s something you can scale better as well. You’ll know, OK, I’m going to have to spend this much in marketing to make this much on a deal then you can better plan for that too. So that’s huge too.
Mike Hambright: Right, right. Yep. So I think just a general kind of overview, people who are newer typically try to pigeon hole themselves into, I’m a wholesaler or I just want to keep houses, rentals or different things, and I guess what we’re saying here from two experienced guys is that it’s important to open yourself up to whatever it takes to monetize a deal, using some different strategies, maybe doing some partnerships or other things. Any other comments on how to make sure people are monetizing everything they can, Alex?
Alex Joungblood: Well, it comes down to making sure you’re prepared to do that. Private money is one of those things that really opens you up to that. Once I realized the power of private money and started using that in my business, that really was a turning point for me because now I could buy something and not have to worry about the ticking time clock of the contract and, oh man, I can’t sell this, now what am I going to do type of thing. Or I’m just going to have to sell this for a $2,000 assignment fee or a $5,000 assignment fee. You have to be prepared to do that and private money is a big part of that.
Mike Hambright: Yeah, and I’d say for wholesalers, I think one of the problems that a lot of new wholesalers tend to have is that they pigeon hole themselves into I’m just going to wholesale or assign property so I don’t need capital, and then when a deal comes up where they wish they had capital they already have the mentality of, well, I haven’t been looking for it because I didn’t need it. So you should always have some access there built up or relationships in case you need it.
Alex Joungblood: Yeah, and one thing you could do as well is if you don’t have access to private money you could find somebody in your local market, an investor that you know who does, and they might want to partner with you on it, to go halfsies on it, and you still might make more money that way then just selling it really quick to somebody because you couldn’t sell so you had to sell it real cheap or you wouldn’t have sold it at all, until you’re able to establish those relationships.
Mike Hambright: Yep, yep. Great. Well, if you’re newer and you’re listening you should check out Alex’s private Facebook group. It’s a great learning platform. There’s a lot of information shared out there, a lot of questions, and lots of people willing to share their knowledge and stuff, so it’s great. Hey Alex, any final words for folks who are listening to the show about either being an opportunist and monetizing all the deals they can or just general success? Anything you want to share.
Alex Joungblood: Yeah. Just open your eyes. Really look at your leads that you have coming in. First of all, you’ve got to have leads coming in. That’s the first thing. You’ve got to get good at marketing and you’ve got to get as many leads as you can coming into the pipe and then start looking at them not just in the standpoint of, OK, this person is not asking the right price so I’m just going to write them off right away. First check if they’ve got equity, if they’re got equity go for the low ball price if you need to, but if they won’t do that don’t write it off completely. Maybe it’s worth exploring a little further. Get out there, look at the house and see if it really is in decent shape. Maybe you can beat your competition out on it because you can offer a little bit more for it and also still end up making some good money on it because you can do that wholetail strategy. So, it comes back to being able to examine your leads and making sure that you know what you’re working with, and that’s a big part of it. Then when it comes to things like development and things like that and you’re able to put yourself in a position where you can work with people that can help you along those lines, that’s going to open a whole other category of things that you can do and it all comes back to knowing your leads and knowing your options. So don’t just call yourself a wholesaler or a flipper. Be an opportunist and realize that there are so many different ways that we can go with leads and make money.
Mike Hambright: Absolutely, absolutely. Well hey Alex, thanks for joining us today. I appreciate all your time and knowledge.
Alex Joungblood: Thank you.
Mike Hambright: All right, buddy, we’ll see you around.
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