Show Summary

Self-directed IRA’s are extremely powerful tools, especially for real estate investors. However, there’s a ton of misinformation as to what you can and can’t do, per the IRS. If you screw up, you could get much more than a slap on the hand. To prevent screwing up, it’s important to work with someone like Kaaren Hall, who knows what she’s talking about. In this episode, we learn much more about the do’s and don’ts of self directed IRA’s, as it’s critical that you stay away from decisions that could land you in hot water. It’s also important that you get all the benefits you deserve from these great investment vehicles. It’s another insightful show…don’t miss it!

Highlights of this show

  • Meet Kaaren Hall, Founder of uDirect IRA Services.
  • Join our discussion about some common misconceptions about what you can and can not do with self-directed IRA’s.
  • Learn how properly investing using self-directed IRA’s can have a significant positive impact on your ‘retirement’ years.

Resources and Links from this show:

Listen to the Audio Version of this Episode

FlipNerd Show Transcript:

Mike Hambright: Welcome to the podcast. This is your host, Mike Hambright. On this show, I will introduce you to VIPs in the real estate investing industry, as well as other interesting entrepreneurs whose stories and experiences can help you take your business to the next level. We have three new shows each week, which are available in the iTunes store or by visiting So without further ado, let’s get started.

Hey, it’s Mike Hambright with Welcome back for another exciting VIP interview, where I interview some of the most successful real estate investing experts and entrepreneurs and those who serve us in our industry, to help you learn and grow. Today, I’m joined by self-directed IRA expert, Kaaren Hall. She’s going to share some do’s and don’ts of self-directed IRAs. There’s a lot of misconceptions about how self-directed IRAs work. It’s a fantastic tool, but you really need to know how to use them and work with somebody that does. Before we get started with Kaaren, let’s take a second to recognize our featured sponsors.

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We’d also like to thank National Real Estate Insurance Group, the nation’s leading provider of insurance to the residential real estate investor market. From individual properties to large scale investors, National Real Estate Insurance Group is ready to serve you.

Please note, the views and opinions expressed by the individuals in this program do not necessarily reflect those of or any of its partners, advertisers or affiliates. Please consult professionals before making any investment or tax decisions as real estate investing can be risky.

Hi, Kaaren. How are you?

Kaaren Hall: Good.

Mike Hambright: Good. Good. Thanks for being here.

Kaaren Hall: Thank you.

Mike Hambright: All right. Well, for those that… It’s a really interesting topic, self-directed IRAs. In fact, I went to a mastermind that I just recently joined, and there were some people that… I mean, everybody there is using them because they understand the power of them. I know there’s a lot of misconceptions, even if folks have kind of heard that word thrown around, a self-directed IRA. But before we get started talking about that, why don’t you kind of introduce us and tell us kind of how you got into this business?

Kaaren Hall: Yeah, I like to joke and say when I was a little girl, I always wanted to self-direct my IRA.

Mike Hambright: Yeah, that’s true. Right?

Kaaren Hall: Yeah, right. Yeah, because you’ve been able to self-direct an IRA for 40 years. So there’s that. No, but I started after a career in broadcasting. Okay? I got into real estate. I mean, the natural leap into real estate, I started in property management, managing some apartment buildings.

Mike Hambright: Okay.

Kaaren Hall: I got a real estate license and then sold real estate, and then kind of became the trailing spouse while we moved with all that going on. So I’ve had a real estate license in Washington State, Texas, and California.

Mike Hambright: All right.

Kaaren Hall: So I was in real estate. I was in mortgage lending, like mortgage loan servicing for a while, about eight years, and then got into mortgage loan origination. So that spanned about 16 years.

Mike Hambright: Wow.

Kaaren Hall: I’m just going to make up words here. So it spanned 16 years.

Mike Hambright: Yeah.

Kaaren Hall: And . . .

Mike Hambright: I make up words all the time. So that’s okay.

Kaaren Hall: So when the opportunity came up to do self-directed IRAs, it was just such a natural fit because I already understood what the account holders were investing in, but I started working for a competitor who will go nameless…

Mike Hambright: Okay.

Kaaren Hall: . . . in this section or department.

Mike Hambright: All right.

Kaaren Hall: So we parted ways, and then I started uDirect IRA Services almost exactly five years ago.

Mike Hambright: All right.

Kaaren Hall: In that time, we’ve opened over 2200 accounts, and everybody is self-directing like crazy. So it’s good.

Mike Hambright: Yeah, that’s great. That’s great. So for those that aren’t really sure what a self-directed IRA is, and of course there’s different flavors of that… There’s traditional and Roths and a number of other things. But just kind of talk in principle about what a self-directed IRA is, and then maybe some of the benefits that account holders typically get, why they use them.

Kaaren Hall: Sure. Sure. Well, there’s an IRA. Everybody pretty much knows what that is. It’s an individual retirement account or individual retirement arrangement, and it’s a way to save for retirement. So a lot of times, what’ll happen is you’ve got a 401K where you used to work, and then you move it into an IRA, and you may or may not realize what’s going on there, but typically that’s in the stock market.

So a typical IRA is invested in the stock market. When you’ve got a self-directed IRA… The only difference between those two kinds is that a self-directed IRA now is open to a whole new set of asset classes.

Mike Hambright: Right.

Kaaren Hall: So the typical IRA is stocks, bonds, mutual funds, maybe a CD. The self-directed IRA, doors are wide open. Now, you’ve got real estate. Now, you’ve got notes. Now, you’ve got raw land, private stock, precious metals, so many different kinds of things.

Mike Hambright: Right.

Kaaren Hall: So the only difference between the two is the kind of asset that the plan can invest in.

Mike Hambright: Yeah, and what’s interesting… For me, I actually started… Basically I was a finance undergrad. I worked for a massive bank that basically managed corporate pension funds, literally at the time, over a trillion dollars. This is going to date me way back. I think it’s much, much larger than that now, but they were huge corporate pension funds that… Basically hundreds and hundreds of money managers were doing their best to try and beat the S&P 500, which starts you kind of questioning things.

But when we got out into… When we started in real estate investing, we’re like… My wife used to be an investment banker on Wall Street. We’re like, we just don’t believe in the financial engineering of Wall Street anymore. At least, we don’t trust it as much as what we know, which is real estate. So it’s always been a shame that we still have some funds that are tied up, and we’re not allowed to invest in ourselves or in our industry even, which is kind of crazy, but that’s where this vehicle comes around for real estate investors. Right?

Kaaren Hall: It really, really does. We say invest in what you know best. That’s kind of a thing we say in the industry. So that’s exactly right. I mean, how much do you… Unless, of course, it’s your wife. But how much does the average person really know about the stock market…

Mike Hambright: Right.

Kaaren Hall… about how it really works? If you’ve got some fund manager making decisions about your retirement, wouldn’t it be better if you were making those decisions?

Mike Hambright: Absolutely. Yeah. There’s no such thing as… I mean, part of it is just the dismay with the market. There’s no such thing as a blue chip stock anymore. Right?

Kaaren Hall: That I don’t know.

Mike Hambright: Yeah.

Kaaren Hall: Ask a stock person about that, but I can tell you that people love self-directed IRAs. They love putting real estate in there. That’s probably what 95% of our account holders do.

Mike Hambright: Yeah. Yeah. So talk a little bit about why real estate investors use that. I mean, of course it gives them access to investing there, but there’s a lot of tax benefits as well. So tell us a little bit about that.

Kaaren Hall: Yeah, that’s a really good point. Now, there are pros and cons to that. Right? So if you’re going to invest in real estate, a lot of people do that because they get tax breaks, and they can write things off and take depreciation. That’s great outside of the IRA. When you’re investing inside the IRA, the tax benefit you get is that the growth is tax-free or tax-deferred. So that’s great. So just know that outside the IRA, you get to write it off on your taxes. Inside the IRA, you’re not writing it off.

Mike Hambright: Right.

Kaaren Hall: So outside the IRA, you own like a house. Maybe you own a condo in Hawaii. So you decide, “Hey, I’ll take the family out there and write it off.” Well, outside the IRA, you can do that. Inside the IRA, you can’t.

Mike Hambright: Okay.

Kaaren Hall: So just so you know pros and cons. But when all of that growth is tax-free in a Roth or tax-deferred in a different kind of IRA, that’s where the power exists.

Mike Hambright: Yeah.

Kaaren Hall: You don’t have some fund manager going back to Wall Street. You don’t have some fund manager taking 1% of your earnings away from your retirement, whether you make money or not.

Mike Hambright: Right.

Kaaren Hall: That doesn’t happen in a self-directed IRA. We have a small flat fee per year, not even based on a percentage of assets in your account. So you get to keep more of your retirement gain than you would invest in the stock market.

Mike Hambright: So talk about… I know there’s some prohibited transactions. Talk about the types of things that you can invest in and that you can’t.

Kaaren Hall: Yeah, that’s super important. When it comes to the self-directed IRA game… If you think of it like a game, like what are the rules… What’s keep-away? Keep-away is prohibited transactions. So if you want to look at the rules, its internal revenue code 49-75 where it’s written. That’s where you can read it all. Maybe you can’t sleep one night, and you just open up the internal revenue code. There it is.

But basically it’s like this. No personal benefit. So you’re not going to have… You’re not going to benefit today from your retirement. These accounts for retirement purposes only. It’s just for later. You don’t take a salary. You don’t lend money to yourself. You don’t have any personal benefit today, even in direct benefit. I get asked the question… You know how investors are smart people, and they want to find a way to make it happen. You know?

Mike Hambright: Yeah.

Kaaren Hall: So you don’t just take your IRA and invest in like an LLC, and then the LLC invests in something, and it brings it back to you. No, the IRS already figured that out. We call that indirect benefit. It’s disallowed. Okay? That’s a prohibited transaction. We don’t do that.

Mike Hambright: Okay.

Kaaren Hall: The other thing you don’t do is you don’t… You stay away from investing with disallowed people, your lineal ascendants and descendants, so your parents and grandparents and their spouses, you and your spouse, your children, your grandchildren, and their spouses, disallowed to the IRA. Okay?

Mike Hambright: Okay.

Kaaren Hall: So that’s important. Now, so your IRA is… Your IRA can buy a house, and your uncle can stay there, but your dad can’t because your dad is disallowed to the IRA, and the uncle is okay.

Mike Hambright: All right.

Kaaren Hall: Right. So you need to know the rules, and that’s what we’re here for.

Mike Hambright: Yeah.

Kaaren Hall: Now, the other kind of disallowed or prohibited transaction is you’re not allowed to take your IRA and provide good services or facilities to the plan. So anyone disallowed, lineal ascendants and descendants, anybody offering services to the plan, cannot provide good services or facilities. So here’s what that means just in English.

What it means is that your IRA owns a house, maybe a really nice house there in Dallas where you are. Hey, guess what. It’s summertime. The grass is growing crazy. It needs to be mowed. So you’re thinking, “Well, my IRA owns this house, but my son could go mow that. Because what is he doing? He’s just sitting there.” So he can go mow the lawn. No, your son is a disallowed person. He cannot provide services to the plan even for free.

Mike Hambright: Okay.

Kaaren Hall: So you’re a realtor. You think, “Oh. Well, my IRA is going to buy a house. I’ll be the buyer’s agent and get the commission.” That’s personal benefit. That’s offering services to the plan. Can’t do that.

Mike Hambright: All right.

Kaaren Hall: You know how they tax you when you die, state tax?

Mike Hambright: Yep.

Kaaren Hall: They tax you when you sweat. In Dallas, you sweat a lot because I used to live there. So if you go in there, and you’re swinging the hammers, and you’re trying to drywall or do any of the work, that’s called an over-contribution of sweat equity, and you’re not going to be doing it. So with self-directed IRAs, real important to remember keep it arms’ length. That’s a good rule of thumb.

Mike Hambright: Okay. So you can buy properties yourself, and then you can rent them or sell them, kind of all the things you just said, disinterested parties, I guess. So talk about what else you can do. A lot of folks lend out of their IRA. Talk about lending.

Kaaren Hall: Yeah, I’ll get to lending. I think you brought up something that I’d like to touch on, and that’s this. So here’s what you can do when your IRA owns a property, because you can’t provide services to the plan, but you can select the property. You can choose your renters. You can physically pick up and collect the rent checks, even though they’re made payable to the IRA. You can hire third party vendors to do the work, but you’re not going to do the work yourself. So I just want to say there are things you can do when your IRA owns a house.

But as far as being a lender, I’ll tell you that is great for an IRA because it’s passive. IRAs tend to be a passive thing. So your IRA can lend money all day long. People invest in trust deeds, whether they’re trust deeds that they’re making initial trust deeds or they’re buying a trust deed that’s already been made, like buying a seasoned loan, for example.

Mike Hambright: Okay.

Kaaren Hall: So there’s all ways that people invest in notes. As long as you… Being a good lender is an art, an art form in itself of choosing the right person to lend to.

Mike Hambright: Yeah.

Kaaren Hall: But people really do like that with the IRA.

Mike Hambright: Yeah. Yeah. So talk… Maybe talk about… Are there any other things you want to kind of mention that you can or can’t do with… Most of what you said right now is that more for a… I guess it’s the same, whether it’s a Roth or a traditional. Of course, there’s some different benefits that you might get if it’s a Roth versus traditional as well.

Kaaren Hall: Right.

Mike Hambright: Are there any other do’s or don’ts or things you’d advise people to do or not do?

Kaaren Hall: Yeah, let’s address that. So the IRAS are… There are different types of IRAs. Right? So like you say, traditional, which is a pre-tax account. You put the money in. It grows tax-deferred. Then you probably get a tax deduction. When it comes out, you pay tax then.

Mike Hambright: Right.

Kaaren Hall: The Roth, where if you qualify, if you don’t make too much money to make a contribution, it goes in after tax, grows tax-free and comes out tax-free for life. The SEP is a pre-tax account. The simple is a pre-tax account and so forth. So there are different kinds of accounts.

Mike Hambright: Right.

Kaaren Hall: That’s the basket that the asset sits in, and there are groups for that. Then just to go on about… I think probably a misconception… One of the things, especially about real estate investing, people completely misunderstand, and it’s so logical, and I get this call like once a week, is, “Hey, I’m so excited. I found this property. My IRA is going to be the down payment on this house that I just found.” It doesn’t work that way. The IRA is not a down payment on a loan, that biggest misconception of all in real estate.

Mike Hambright: You can’t lend to yourself. Right?

Kaaren Hall: You can’t lend to yourself. Right. So your IRA is not going to buy a house that you own personally. Your IRA is not going to buy a vacation home. You’re not allowed to have any use at all of the asset that your IRA owns, none, no personal use.

Mike Hambright: Okay.

Kaaren Hall: It’s for investment purposes only. So that’s great. But even if you’re buying an investment property, the IRA is still not a down payment on the house, unless you’re getting something called a non-recourse loan.

Mike Hambright: Right.

Kaaren Hall: That’s a special… It’s like a commercial loan. What you really need to think about it is… You need to think of it as a commercial loan made to the IRA itself, not to you personally, because you’re not allowed to personally guarantee a loan to your IRA. That’s a prohibited transaction.

Mike Hambright: Okay.

Kaaren Hall: So the loan is made to the IRA, and then the profits are taxable. You put money in an IRA because you want to defer tax, even in a Roth. If your IRA borrows money, your IRA can be subject to a tax. That tax is called UDFI, unrelated debt financed income tax. So you can read about it on the IRS website, publication 598, 598. Read all about it, how an IRA can be taxed. Talk to your tax person.

Mike Hambright: Yeah.

Kaaren Hall: But that’s something to keep in mind.

Mike Hambright: Okay. Okay. So talk a little bit about… We won’t get into all the accounts, all the different types of accounts today, because we just don’t have time to do that. But talk about kind of the main differences between traditional and a Roth.

Kaaren Hall: Okay. Well, a traditional…

Mike Hambright: For the purpose of how real estate investors use them.

Kaaren Hall: Right. They’re so similar. The only difference… A real estate investor would use a traditional just like they use the Roth. The benefits would differ when they pay the tax. On a Roth, you pay the tax going in, and it comes out tax-free for life. That’s sort of the brass ring. That’s like winning the game. If you got a big Roth IRA where you just… Some people will make little micro loans go to real estate investor clubs, make little micro loans, build, build, build that account until they can buy a big asset and then just keep building it.

Mike Hambright: Yeah.

Kaaren Hall: I know a couple of people who have million-dollar Roths because they started doing that, and they were successful.

Mike Hambright: Wow.

Kaaren Hall: But the way a Roth invests is self-directed. The way a traditional IRA self-directs and invests is the same. It’s just the tax benefit of that bucket or shell.

Mike Hambright: Okay. Okay. So talk about some practical uses of how real estate investors in your experience of all your clients are using IRAs as a vehicle to build their own businesses first, I guess.

Kaaren Hall: Well, they’re not going to use it to build their own business because you’re not allowed to have any personal benefits. So here’s the thing. There’s another kind of tax, and it’s called UBIT, unrelated business income tax. So if you are seen to be running a business in your IRA, maybe you’re a flipper, and that’s how you put bread on the table. That’s how you send your kids to college, is with the money you made flipping property. That’s your business. Even if you flip one house in your IRA, it could lead to that tax. Doesn’t mean you can’t do it. Just means it could be taxable.

Mike Hambright: Okay.

Kaaren Hall: So it’s super important to understand that your IRA doesn’t run a business. If it does, you run the risk of it being taxable.

Mike Hambright: Okay. So primarily your clients are folks that are lending to other real estate investors then. Is that safe to say?

Kaaren Hall: A lot of the time. I mean, seriously your IRA… I heard a story where somebody told me that they were at a dinner party with their next door neighbor, and the next door neighbor was talking about the terrible rates they were getting at the time, back when interest rates were high, on a car loan. So at dinner, she said, “Well, hey. Look, I’ve got money in my IRA. Why don’t you borrow the money from my IRA?” So he borrowed the money from her IRA to buy a car and made the car payment back to her IRA. So in that case, it wasn’t real estate. It was secured on a vehicle. The IRA made a secured note against the vehicle, and that worked. So it works like that too.

Mike Hambright: That had to be in a self-directed account though. Right?

Kaaren Hall: Correct. A regular typical IRA, you could not lend the money. If you call one of the big brokerage houses, they would tell you… They might tell you, “We can’t help you,” or they might say, “You can’t do that.” The truth of it is you can do that. You just need a self-directed account.

Mike Hambright: Right. Right. So how about to give some more practical experiences? Are people using Roths for doing wholesale deals, assignments and wholesales?

Kaaren Hall: Yeah. Yes. I mean, every type of real estate transaction can be done in an IRA. The IRS says the only things you can’t do are life insurance contracts and collectibles. So as long as we see that the IRA is receiving an asset in exchange for the money, as long as the IRA is receiving a tangible asset, you can pretty much do it with your IRA.

Mike Hambright: Okay.

Kaaren Hall: But if it looks like… Sometimes, they’ll… There used to be deals like this, and we don’t do them anymore. Remember when you could buy real estate on the tape? Remember those days? So someone would say, “Okay. Well, just put your money in escrow, and we’ll assign a property later, after the fact.” That’s not okay anymore because a lot of people were stolen from that way.

Mike Hambright: Yeah.

Kaaren Hall: So we’re not just going to send money to escrow, hoping there might be some asset in the future. If the money is going out, an asset is being secured.

Mike Hambright: Okay. So for folks that you work with that are your clients that are lending to other real estate investors, what kind of benefits can they expect to receive? I know that it’s basically between the two parties how they negotiate rates. But is it always just a rate? Or do they have profit sharing deals? Talk about other benefits that folks might receive.

Kaaren Hall: [inaudible 00:19:47] these deals. How are the deals structured? Sure, there can be an equity kickback. Right? Your IRA could… For example, your IRA can lend money at X percent with an equity kicker. But when you’re doing that equity kicker that can lead to that tax, that UBIT tax. So that’s when you want to talk to your tax advisor and say, “Look, I’m looking at this deal. This is what I’m looking at. Do I owe this tax? If I do, how does that pencil out?” Remember Steven Cubby [SP], the seven habits?

Mike Hambright: Yeah.

Kaaren Hall: He always says, “Begin with the end in mind,” especially with your IRA because it’s precious money. It’s hard to stick away. You’re limited how much you can contribute. It’s hard to replace the losses. So pencil it all out in advance and talk to your tax person. Have them involved in the deal when you start [inaudible 00:20:31].

Mike Hambright: Okay. Okay. Well, are there any other do’s and don’ts you want to talk about, specifically as it pertains to real estate investors? Or any other creative ways you see folks using it that you want to talk about?

Kaaren Hall: Well, I think that what I want to say is that a lot of times, the self-directed IRAs… There are misconceptions about what the role is of the account holder, because it’s self-directed. So we’re here to help you administratively, hold your hand administratively through the paperwork.

Mike Hambright: Okay.

Kaaren Hall: When it comes to the asset itself, it’s so important to make sure… You’ve got to be very responsible because you’re now taking on that role of being the expert, the investing expert.

Mike Hambright: Right.

Kaaren Hall: It’s self-directed. So I saw an attorney whose IRA bought a house. What he was doing, which was… We didn’t know this at the time. He was having his renters, people renting his IRA-owned property, send the rent checks to him personally, and he was claiming it on his tax return. So he thought he was fine, but the money… All proceeds of the IRA have to go back to the IRA. All expenses of the IRA have to be paid for by the IRA.

So if your IRA owns a house, you need a new roof… One woman went out and got a home equity line of credit to pay for the new roof on her IRA-owned house. Ouch. How do you un-ring that bell?

Mike Hambright: Right.

Kaaren Hall: You don’t take personal assets and put them into an IRA-owned asset. You just don’t do that. So just remember that all expenses are paid for by the IRA. All proceeds must go back in the IRA back to our attorney where the rent was coming into his account every month.

Mike Hambright: Yeah.

Kaaren Hall: His personal account. He called us and said something like… He told us what he was doing. Once we knew that, we had to disperse his account to him as a taxable event because he breached that. It’s no longer a self-directed IRA. Now, he’s got constructive use of his IRA funds. It got dispersed to him as a taxable event. So the rules of the game, the self-directed IRA game, you need to know them before you get started. That’s what we’re here for, to help you with that.

Mike Hambright: Yeah. So with your company, I know you’re a third party administrator. Kind of talk about the different players that are typically involved, like the administrator, custodians.

Kaaren Hall: Sure.

Mike Hambright: Like who all the different roles are that folks should consider in the process.

Kaaren Hall: Yeah, there are four roles in this thing. So there’s you, the person, the IRA-holder. You’re one human entity. Then there’s the IRA. So when you’re taking your IRA money and you’re investing it, it’s not your money. It’s not Mike’s money. It’s the custodian for the benefit of Mike’s IRA. That’s how that works. So you don’t sign the offer to purchase. When do you buy real estate and not sign the deal? Right? We sign it on behalf of the IRA. That’s how that works. So one party is you. The other party is the IRA.

Then there’s us, uDirect IRA Services. We’re the point of contact through the whole process, from the time you open your account until… God bless it, hopefully. One day, you may pass away, and your heirs may take on the account. We’re there through the whole thing, the whole life cycle.

Mike Hambright: Yeah.

Kaaren Hall: When I started the company five years ago, I enlisted the help of a trust company custodian. So they’re the ones that… Their employees are bonded and insured. They’re holding the money, and they’re dispersing the funds and pushing the button and wiring the money. So there’s that. So those are the players in the game, you, your IRA, the third party administrator, and the trust company custodian, are the players in the self-directed IRA game.

Mike Hambright: Okay. Okay. Maybe take a few minutes to talk about how folks can open an account, like what the… Probably not too many technical details about how much they can contribute and things like that. I know that varies, but a little bit about how they may be able to roll over a 401K from a company that they left or even roll over an existing IRA into a self-directed.

Kaaren Hall: Yeah, there are really three ways to do this when you’re contributing. You can write a check and make a contribution. How much? Ask your tax person. Depends upon your age, your account type, and your income. That’s one thing. Another way to get money into an IRA is an IRA-to-IRA transfer. Money goes from one IRA to the other. The third way is a rollover, where you fill out the documentation of your previous employer. You go to their plan administrator, fill out their paperwork, and then they move the money into your IRA.

But it’s really a three-step process, the whole self-directed IRA. Open, fund, invest. Fill out the paperwork. Open the account. Number two, move the money. Number three, move the money from the IRA out into the deal. Hey, number four, enjoy the profit. Hopefully you’ve made a great investment, and it works for you.

Mike Hambright: Yep. Yep. Well, great, Karen. Kaaren, sorry. Any other tips on how folks could go about getting started? Or if they want to learn more from you with your company, can you tell us where to go?

Kaaren Hill: Sure. Our website has so much helpful information. It’s, the letter U, We’re on Facebook. We’re on LinkedIn. We’re on Twitter. We’re on everything. We’re on social media. You can find us. Our website has got a big wealth of information. You could email us, [email protected] Our toll-free number is 866-538-3539. So 866-538-3539. During business hours, there’s always somebody here who can answer your question. It doesn’t take… If you need to get a return call, it doesn’t take very long. We’re always available by email. You know how this modern world… We’re very in contact with [inaudible 00:26:11].

Mike Hambright: Also, for our listeners, I mean, there’s so much power in the self-directed IRA that we’re just not even able to cover it all here today, but I definitely encourage folks to check it out. It’s a great vehicle. You can even… A lot of… I know some of the custodians… Maybe you advise this too, is how to work with others to effectively build up a bank for yourself with other people’s money and their IRA accounts to use to fund your real estate investing business.

Kaaren Hill: Absolutely. By the way, I’d like to make an offer. If any of your listeners… If they’d like a copy of the self-directed IRA handbook, they can email me, and I’ll send it to them. Because when you said it, it really made the light bulb go on in my head. There’s so much to know.

Mike Hambright: Yeah.

Kaaren Hill: So I’ll send a copy of the self-directed IRA handbook to any of your listeners who send an email to me and request it. Just say “free book” in the subject.

Mike Hambright: Free book in the… Go ahead and give us the email address you want to use.

Kaaren Hill: Okay, [email protected] the letter U, Free book and I’ll send you a copy of the self-directed IRA handbook.

Mike Hambright: Okay.

Kaaren Hill: Published this year.

Mike Hambright: Great. Anybody that’s listening in, we’ll add those numbers and links down below the video. If they listen on the podcast, they just have to rewind it a second and write that down.

Kaaren Hill: Perfect. Because I really want people to understand self-directed IRAs because you have a good experience. When you know the rules, know how to play the game, you’re going to win.

Mike Hambright: Absolutely, especially if you’re working with the right people.

Kaaren Hill: There you go.

Mike Hambright: Kaaren, well, thank you very much for your time. I definitely appreciate the information and kind of demystifying things a little bit for us.

Kaaren Hill: I appreciate the opportunity. Thanks so much.

Mike Hambright: Okay. Thanks for being here. Bye-bye. Thanks for joining us on today’s podcast. To listen to more of our shows and hear from incredible guests, please access all of our podcasts in the iTunes store. You can also watch the video versions of our shows by visiting us at