What’s up Freedom Fighters! Hey, welcome back for another episode! I’m excited today to introduce you to good friends of mine, James and Christina Spence, a husband and wife team, based out of my market here in Dallas. They joined our coaching program about a year ago and they’ve had some successes and failures and all sorts of interesting deals over the past year. Today, they’ll share their first year in the business – what they’ve been doing, lessons learned, goals and attempt to help you understand some of the things that you might go through in your business. Let’s get started!
Mike: What’s up, freedom fighters. Hey, welcome back for another episode. I’m excited today to introduce you to some friends of mine. James, Christina Spence, a husband and wife team actually based out of my market here in Dallas. They joined our coaching program about a year ago and have had some successes, some failures, all sorts of stuff over the past year and they’re going to share kind of, they’ve been doing this for a little over a year. They’re going to share really their first year in business and some of the lessons learned in an attempt to kind of help you understand some of the things that you might go through in your business.
Welcome to “Real Estate Investing Secrets.” We’re all looking for freedom and the opportunity to live better, more fulfilling lives. But most of us were trained our entire lives to work for someone else and chase their dreams. How can we use real estate investing as a vehicle to achieve financial freedom? My life is dedicated to answering your real estate investing questions and helping you build an investing business that allows you to change your life and the world around you and to enable you to turn your dreams of financial freedom into a reality. My name is Mike Hambright, from flipnerd.com and your questions get answered here on the “Real Estate Investing Secrets” show.
Hey guys, welcome to the show.
Christina: Thanks for having us. Appreciate it.
James: Thanks, Mike. Pleasure to be here.
Mike: It’s good to see you guys. You guys you’ve some of our kind of star students and you guys are off and running now and you don’t even need us anymore, but it’s really been awesome to watch you guys. And I think we have a lot of similarities that we kind of, you know, we all refer to ourselves as corporate refugees and kind of have that experience of working for the man and knowing that that wasn’t a right for us. But rather than me kind of talk about your background, maybe you guys could just take a second and a couple of minutes and talk about kind of your background and how you found your way in the real estate investment. Go ahead, Christina.
Christina: Sure, sure. So we both had great careers. James in the financial space and home improvement space. I was in sales. I was in telecom and marketing and so on for many years. I think about three years before we started, Mike, in your program we said, hey, you know, we want to start our own business, make generational wealth, right? Be free from the corporate schedule and the corporate demands. So we started looking to see what were we going to do.
We looked at lots of different things, different businesses, Chick-Fil-A franchises, ATM machines, all kinds of funny things like that. But I think we both had a passion for real estate. And so James, who’s our visionary here in the group really took us down that direction. So for a couple of years we looked to see what we wanted to do. Went to different seminars, right? Talked to different coaches. We’re very fortunate as I’ve said to you may times to meet you in October of 2017. That allowed us to put the rest of the plan in place, quit our jobs at the end of December again after having planned it for a while and then start on your program in January of ’18. So it has been somewhere where we never want to go back though we had great careers and enjoyed the people we work with but we love what we do now even more.
Mike: Yeah. And James, is it kind of . . . I mean, as the visionary of the group, I’m the visionary in our group here. Was it hard to make that transition? I know you were kind of in transition with your job, but it kind of difficult to have, you know, sometimes people will have a good paying job, your friends and family and like, “Whoa, why would you leave your job? You have good benefits there.” But you’re just not fulfilled, right? I mean, maybe share your thoughts on that.
James: Sure. I think as a visionary, you’ll appreciate this, the more successful you are in your job, the more money you’re making for your employer. And so, Christina and I would have this discussion about, wow, you know, I made this much money for the firm this month, or hey, you know, I sold this huge program for my company that month. And it was fulfilling, you know, earlier on in our careers. but then at some point you’re like, well, wait a minute. I want to make, you know, these huge returns, you know, for our own entity.
So I think everyone’s jumping off point is going to be different but for us it took us kind of pulling together and saying, well, we both want to do this. And then just we knew that the time was right and to jump on it and seize on it, but to do that in the environment that your program provided for us. It gave us the structure, the confidence that hey, this is really a lot like, you know, what we’ve done professionally where, you know, there’s a game plan in place and there are systems and processes to follow. And as long as we do that, we still have kind of that . . . what’s the word?
James: Yeah, thank you. The framework of a job, but now we’re getting to fulfill, getting to do this on our own the way we wanted to. And so I think that’s kind of the highlights I guess.
Christina: And you know, we’ve been high professionals and saw we’re the type of people that don’t want to fail or do a job halfway, right? And so your program is exactly what we were looking for. It sounds for a moment like a sales pitch, but it really isn’t. For us, we would have never jumped off on our own. There’s some now, especially after being in the business 15 months, there’s no way we would have learned all this if it weren’t for the systems that you’ve put in place for us, the processes, right? All the things you taught us. And we would not have been successful and probably gone back that way. So that has been a huge blessing for us to learn all these systems, to put them in place because our goals are of high volume.
Mike: Yeah. I think for some people, a lot people have a difficult time like you said, kind of jumping off and doing their own thing. There’s a lot of people that are interested in real estate investing, but they just, they don’t know where do you jump off at, right? And it’s just this fear, and I guess probably, and I thought about this a fair bit recently is I tend to attract into our program and people around me that are interested in learning from us a little more analytical person or somebody that has that corporate background that appreciates the structure. I guess it’s kind of a double-edged sword. Like we don’t attract people that are like have no plan and they’re just flying by the seat of their pants. Like, because I don’t fly by the seat of my pants so I don’t attract that person.
But it probably helps because the truth is, is coming from a corporate background and anybody that is listening to this might appreciate this is to jump off you want there to be a plan in place just like you probably do in your job today. Like there’s a roadmap for me to go from here, point A to point B. Would you agree with that?
James: Absolutely. And to expand on Christina’s point, when we knew that we wanted to do this, we didn’t think that going about it on our own would be right. We knew we wanted to hire someone. We were completely happy to, you know, to meet with and kind of, you know, implement your program. Looking back now, we’re even, you know, more sure that while we wouldn’t have wanted to just like try and go and do this on our own, as we know, there’s a ton of content out there that, you know, you can listen to all these various people speak. But for most of them, you know, the teaching and that they offer, they may never even have implemented it. They’re just info-marketing.
So, you know, for us to have the structure in place with people that have actually done it, you know, particularly in a market that, you know, in this case was exactly ours, but even if it were just like ours, that made all the difference and going back, looking back, I’m so happy that we didn’t just say, “Oh, you know what, we’ll get on YouTube, we’ll watch a bunch of videos. We’ll read some books and we’ll be good to go.” That’s not the way to go.
Mike: Yeah. And there’s a reason why big companies don’t generally do that either. They’re either going to buy another company that’s already doing what they want to do or they’re going to spend a lot of R&D like figuring it out before they go live. And so, you know, I think it’s really, it’s ultimately kind of the same approach.
So let’s get to some of your lessons learned over the first year. And you know, there’s lessons learned whether you’re 10 or 20 years in the business, you’re still learning all the time. I promise you. We learn what not to do almost on a daily basis. But, so Christina, one of the things that I told you guys early on was never use your own money, right? And so even if you have money, you shouldn’t use it because no matter how much you have, it’ll get soaked up. But you guys did it anyway. So talk a little bit about that and some of the lessons you learned kind of early on about why you shouldn’t use your own money.
Christina: Yeah, I know, I think kudos to you, right? Because the things you’ve told us to do, and we did have turned out great and the things you told us to not do and we still did we’re finding out as we go. So as you said, learning is every day. So, you know, we hit the market hard after we finished your training. It took us about a month. But in February 2nd of 2018 we sent out our first mailing and things start to happen, right? We’re very aggressive. And our first deal came. Actually, two on the same week and now, it was an emergency and we had to hurry up and close this deal because there was an illness involved with a seller.
So we didn’t have a lot of time and we didn’t have the background with the banks, right? We didn’t have a person to lend us money. We didn’t have hard money lenders. So the first thing that we thought about was, okay, you know, we have some money on the side. We’re just going to use that. And that was okay at that moment, but one of the things that we tell your newer students now is, set up your hard money lenders, private money, whatever it is that you’re going to do early on. So where your first deal comes along, you’re not in the same place we were. It wasn’t our first deal, but it was the first two. In the first two.
How did that cost us? First of all, we didn’t have that money to use for other deals that we wanted to buy down payments, right, repairs, those kinds of things. But the second thing is when August came around and that house was on the market, we had all our money tied up in there and we weren’t able to do marketing for about a month or two. And that actually took away from the volume that we were hoping to build that year. We still did well because we ended up doing other things. We actually, as we, I hope we’ll talk for a moment here, we cast a wide net in everything that we do. So we continued on. But in looking back, we were thinking, could I have done three more deals with that money that I actually sunk into the business?
Mike: Yeah. The advertising. Like we kind of say never stopped generating leads and so, you don’t want to get to that situation. Of course, you don’t feel it then, you feel it in the months ahead or even years ahead when those leads could be coming back around. So James, what are some of the lessons learned on the importance of consistently generating leads? Consistent advertising?
James: Well, that was probably the most stark lesson we could have learned. And as you noted at the time we knew that while we’re having to spend marketing. Not so much that we couldn’t afford the marketing because we had budgeted for that. But at that point, because we hadn’t done as good a job as we should have in kind of setting up our financial relationships, you know, prior, we still had the money to do the ad spend and keep the machine going. But we said, you know, to what end, if we get like a great deal right now, we can’t afford to do it.
And so, you know, in suspending the marketing like that, the continuity. And this was a theme that, you know, fully on us. We know you told us from day one, don’t do this, but you know, the continuity of it and being consistent and just, you know, following a regular, you know, no matter how big or small your budget is, just to do it regularly, consistently and don’t deviate. And not doing that, it really hit us hard in the third quarter, even though that was a mistake that we make early in the second quarter.
And then to push past, you know, we survived that. We made it through. Not without a little soul searching, you know, what are we even doing? Moving forward, you know, we’re evaluating in the first quarter this year we did two deals that came from marketing that we had done in Q2 and Q3 last year. So we didn’t intentionally say, well, you know, we’re going to just do this differently. As Christina said, from not planning things out as thoroughly as we could of, we ended up in that spot, you know, using more of our own money and it really, it really did cost us. And every week we’re like, yeah, Mike was right. Now we know why.
And as we talk to new people, we tell them, look, get all of your financial arrangements to whatever extent you can in place before you jump off, quit your jobs and then, you know, never stop marketing. And we did that for about six weeks. We kind of paid the price for that. We’ve moved past that. We’re never doing it again.
Christina: Never. That’s right. And you know, I think even an Investor Fuel, right? They talk about, you know, the more successful you are, the more money you need. So even if you think you’re all set for what volume you’re doing this moment, you better be working on the next quarter in the next year because that volume is going to grow. You’re going to need more private lenders, more hard money lenders, more money as you go. The more successful you are, the money is always short.
Mike: And these are two constants. I know the highest volume real estate investors in the country, they always want more deals and more leads and need more money. Like it’s, that will never go away.
Christina: Exactly. It’s not a onetime thing, which takes me to the next place, right? One of the things we didn’t do, and we’re so glad because you told us, you said yes, go for it, plan it and go for it. And we took action. We took bold action from the beginning and I remember that we could had analysis paralysis because we’re both pretty smart and you know, we have the ability to analyze things to the death, but we went for it. And things that we spend a lot of time thinking through but actually went ahead and did, we are continuing to tweak. It’s always a changing business. There is always learnings that you have. It could come, the learnings could have come two years later and you’re going to tweak something. So go for it. And you gave us that advice and we delivered on that.
Mike: Yeah. The truth is every business, every, every small business, every large business, you don’t see it as much in the large businesses because it’s kind of, they have, so they’re a little more stabilized. But in this business, you have to constantly pivot, right? This works, this doesn’t work anymore. Start doing that. And that’s you know, that’s what keeps a lot of people out of doing this is because they will try something one time tops and that didn’t work so now, I’m out. But I think that’s really the sign of a real entrepreneur or somebody that’s committed to constant change. You have to be.
Christina: Exactly. And that’s one of the things you taught us, right, is all those different ways to market. And we talked a lot about direct marketing, which we are still believers in as long as you’re doing it well. But we cast a wide net and I think that’s important. It carries you on one thing stops working, the other thing does. So for us, you know, direct marketing referrals, you know, talking to people, talking to neighbors, you know, putting out Facebook ads, text messaging, emailing, RVMs, everything right is part of our business now. And you know, as we scale, we’re going to want to do more of that.
James: To kind of extend on that, Mike, one of the advantages that you provided for us by giving some structure to kind of get started, the being on a solid footing, having systems in place has allowed us to kind of, you know, follow the, you know, what the visionaries like and let’s go big, go bold and do things fast. We tried a lot of things and what we’re doing today in our business probably isn’t actually . . . we’re not generating our revenue exactly the way we thought we would, you know, a year and a half ago when we started. But by having that solid footing and the framework that your program provided for us, it let us really kind of a little bit more safely test out various things to do those strategic pivots that you’re talking about.
So what we’re doing right now, we’re super excited about. I don’t want to divert to talk about the details of that today, but, you know, one aspect of that is probably the thing that I’m most excited about. It seems to be the most profitable thing and our future. And if we had not had systems in place, it would have been disastrous for us to even try that.
So, I think your program is a great mix of giving us what we needed to kind of safely set up and pursue things, have a plan in place, but then to go after those opportunities that things that were good at that maybe, you know, the next business couple or the individual might not be. It allowed us to kind of head down that road and we’ve played off one another’s strengths, tried to, well, minimize my weaknesses. My wife doesn’t have any. But you gave a great environment for us to kind of become us professionally and that we always felt like we had the corporate mom behind us where we always did just because we had everything in place.
Mike: Am I the mom?
James: No, but your system is.
Mike: The funny thing is really for any small business, even non-real estate like what we teach is pretty fundamental small business really. Build the systems and processes that allow you to do stuff over and over and over again and get yourself out of the way. Otherwise you just have like, you know, you have like stacks of these all over you everywhere, right? And I’m not saying that I don’t have some of those on my desk right now, but the truth is, is these all lead to checklists and processes for how to do things because this business is very checklist centric, right? We do the same things over and over again. The first Tuesday of every month do this. Every time you get a house to do these 80 things. Like it’s very prone to being . . . I mean that’s a good thing for us as we can build processes around how to systematically do something every time that happens. Do these lists of things, right?
Christina: I think absolutely. And you know, as we each have our strengths and so on, and there’s a million tasks, you know, we think about how are we going to grow this business where we don’t get bogged down because truly we left, you know, our corporate careers so that we would have that financial freedom, but also freedom of time, right? So this moment and 15 months into the business, we’re probably working harder than we were even in corporate America, more hours. But we are at the place where we’re continuing to grow our team. And the systems you talk about are transferable to others, right? So we use, as an example, Asana religiously. You taught that there’s a million tasks. If I can’t think of what I need that day, I just talk to my phone and puts it on Asana. I sort it out later. Pass it on.
We’re growing our team. We’ve had two VAs that we love out of the Philippines for, it’ll be a year actually here in June and they’ve been tremendous. Yes, they’ve been tremendous for us in a big part of our business and we use these tools with them so that we can communicate with time zone issues and other things. But we’re growing the team soon, right? Again, we’re looking to have an admin come on board here the third quarter with us and, you know, she or he are going to be using those types of systems and tools. Our goal is to grow in volume and have people to help so that we can step back and enjoy life a little bit more as part of that.
Mike: That’s great. And so you guys are a little over a year in from the time really. Probably by the time you get your first deal underway, it’s been just over a year and you guys have done around what, 23, 24 properties now.
Christina:Yeah, that’s right.
Mike:Some work better than others, right? I mean, not everything is perfect. Some of them were awesome. Some of them you’re like, you know, you maybe wished you had a mulligan or something, right? Is that fair to say?
James: That’s very fair. I would say that the, you know, to you use like a blackjack analogy that you like the house insurance, right? Some have been great. Some of them have been pretty mediocre. We haven’t lost on any of them. And the systems and processes that we put in place and the key learnings that we entered into this have, you know, been instrumental in us not having a net loss.
If you can have a situation where you could learn from a real life deal and, well, we didn’t make as much as we thought we could, but we still didn’t lose. I mean that’s kind of an awesome place to be. And so kind of the more things we do, the more things that we’re willing to do and more things we’re open to exploring. And I think that those learnings really are ones that you’re going to have to individually experience because the mistakes that we made work because, you know, we were trained the wrong way. They generally are, you know, things that we deviated it on. But yeah, there’s kind of a safe space to do that to where, all right, well that costs us some profit, but it didn’t cost us all the profit.
Mike: Would you say the common theme for the deals that you haven’t done as well on, was that you, you like kind of fell in love with it or are you like overlooked something that you probably shouldn’t have? Like, well, it’s on a busy road, but you know, it’s not really that bad. And or I know and I know you guys do, you’re really deviating from what you know you should do because you really want to help that seller out. You just want to like get them out of a situation, right? Those are some common things you guys have probably seen, right?
James: I think you must’ve just analyzed every one of our deals and all the high points there.
Christina: I think our biggest learnings as we go along and we’re getting better at this every day, is we’re learning how to go faster, right? Because we know that time is money and we even know that every property costs us $100 to $200 a day, right? If we’re just sitting on it. So we’re learning to go faster. James has done an amazing job in working with the contractors. We now have our amazing Kevin, right? But we have a couple of other folks and they’re learning how to work together and how to move the ball forward faster.
Some JVs are happening for us, which are great. Both here in the U.S. and with international buyers. So excited to talk about that another day. So we’re learning how to evolve our business even further on that. But we’re always, always going to help customers and without getting into details, I think that a lot of people who are listening to us probably haven’t had to take two, not one, but two people out of jail but we have.
Mike: I haven’t even done that. I remember having this conversation and you’re like, well, we need to bail somebody out of jail to get this deal done. And what do we do? And I’m like ah.
Christina: When we left [applying 00:22:45] Fridays to do that.
James: We always like to have a vertical consolidation in your business. Then if you’re just spending a lot of money on something, you want to set up a business to do that. So I’m looking at getting licensed as the bail’s bondsman because that might come into, you know, use for us.
Mike: That could be a good lead generation to have.
James: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Who do you know that’s also in lock-up?
Mike: Yeah. Who else can you refer me that’s behind bars there with you that has a house to sell?
Christina: So I could buy their house. That’s right. It’s kind of scary going to jail, I have to tell you.
James: Yeah, we visited. It was just visiting.
Mike: You weren’t behind bars yourself.
James: Yeah, that’s right. Yeah.
Christina: No. Thankfully.
Mike: So if you guys had to summarize, maybe I’m kind of the biggest lesson or two for folks who are listening right now that are like, I’ve been thinking about getting started or I kind of stuck my toe in the water but I pulled back because I was afraid of something or whatever. What’s kind of the biggest lesson or two that you would share with a new person that is eager to get started?
Christina: I want to take one first before you quit, right? I think you need to have a plan in place as you probably have had, you know, as the people have had in their lives. I think there has to be a few things in place. First, the desire and the focus to do it, right, because we all jump off and then sometimes we don’t stay focused, right? Losing weight, doing other things, we just don’t. The second part is there has to be a plan financially and in my thought, people have the ability, let’s say to take a retirement package or a severance package, right? That’s the best time to jump off because, why, you have some money while you’re jumping off and starting a new business, right? And that’s really important.
The third thing is, if you need to buy a car, get any loans, right, get some type of credit lines and you want to do that while your W2 is working for you because after that, there won’t be a W2 and for two years, banks are looking for a two-year history before and yes, tax returns and so on before they do that. So those would be the things I would do up front and I also would find the right group, right. Hopefully here in [Austin 00:24:59] FlipNerd too to be joining or people referring other people into FlipNerd. Those would be my, before you quit your job. Make sure you’ve got some money to carry on, but all your bank loans and things like that in place that you need, buy a car, whatever you need to do, have a plan. And most of all have the desire and focus.
Mike: And what would you say about maybe, James, you can share some thoughts on, there’s a lot of people that you guys are husband and wife team. My wife and I are husband and wife team. You know, you’ve got some challenges to go from figuring out how you each have your own job to how you work together, which that we could make a whole show on that. So, but just like sometimes people are not around people that support them in doing this. And you know, it’s easy to say, well, just don’t be around those people, but what if those people are your family members or your spouse? So maybe share some thoughts on the importance of having that support. And if you don’t have it, maybe some tips on how to get it.
James: Sure. So it really is difficult if you have a vision to do something and somebody really, maybe not as simple as doesn’t share it, but maybe they’re know adamantly against it. Those are difficult spots. And so you want to try and, you know, particularly with a spouse, you know, a close partner, you want to try to get buy-in, you know, on the front end as much as possible because as you know, you’ll have enough challenges in just day-to-day life and starting a business that, you know, if everyone’s not kind of in sync, it makes it more complex.
But one of the things that has been super advantageous for us would be all the relationships that we’ve developed, the networking that’s spurred, you know, partly I’d say that that began in the environment that your program created for us. But then as we’ve expanded beyond that, I now can be around people in, you know, a number of different areas all in this industry, all around the country that if I’m having a, you know, a difficult issue with something, you know, maybe going to my business partner who’s also my spouse isn’t the right thing to do that day. I’ll reach out to, you know, somebody that, you know, I’ve established relationship with. And kind of get the support there to where when I go to my business partner, I have a more tested, you know, cohesive plan to, hey, here’s what we want to do and here’s how I think, you know, we can attack that. And by the way, you know, I talked to so and so who did these things and here are the takeaways.
It’s difficult to stay on track even when everyone’s pulling the oars in the same direction. But to the extent that, you know, you can’t set that up in advance. I think having a broad network of people to support you for ideas, for guidance. We coach each other now as much, you know, all the relationships that we’ve developed. We coach each other as much as we get coached. It just becomes a community. And that’s the only answer to that, in my opinion.
Christina: And you know, Mike, I think that for those who are married, but only one spouse is involved, I think some of the good lessons or good things we’ve seen actually are bring your spouse to these events, right? If there’s an networking time or you know, you had a casino night one night, or we had a dinner at our house, bring the spouse, get them to understand your business more, bring them to one of the houses, right? Even if they’re not interested in being in the business, get them to feel like they’re part of a family. And that happens when people have two separate jobs in two companies as well. But that’s no different. I think it’s definitely a mindset, but I think when that spouse who’s not involved feels the love right and understands the power of the group. This is our tribe. So this person needs to be a part of the tribe.
Mike: Yeah. That’s great. Awesome guys. If folks want to learn more about what you guys have going on, I know you’re posting some stuff on social media more and more these days. What’s a good place for them to go to learn a little more about what you’re doing or follow along?
James: One of our website freedomhomestexas.com kind of chronicles some of the things that we’ve done, some of our learnings. We’re doing more and more to try and put some active in-progress jobs on that website. You know, we’re on Facebook, Instagram, Pinterest, all the, you know, the normal things, all that kind of links off of our website. But you know, we would say also, you know, anybody that has, you know, any questions or want to connect, just reach out to us through any of those channels because we’re all about that are getting to know other people, you know, deep, you know, strengthening those relationships. And so I’d start with our website or just, you know, reaching out to us. Christina and our VAs do a great job of kind of managing all those platforms. They’re a lot more involved in that day to day than I am. So I’ll kind of let her expand on that, but I would say, you know, begin with our website.
Christina: And connect with us also on Facebook. James is [email protected] I’m [email protected] and our Facebook pages are Freedom Homes DFW. So we’re happy to have you take a look, ask us any questions. We love the dialog that goes on in the various groups that you have, Mike, so all excited to connect that way.
Mike: Awesome. Awesome guys, thanks for, thanks for sharing so much great information today.
James: Absolutely. Thank you for having us, Mike.
Christina: Thank you.
Mike: We’ll definitely have to have you guys on the show again and kind of hear year two progress. How about that?
James: We’d love that. That’s great.
Christina: Thank you so much.
Mike: Sounds great. Everybody, thanks for thanks for listening today. If you haven’t yet subscribed to us on iTunes, Stitcher Radio, Google play, YouTube, anywhere and everywhere, flipnerd.com. Of course, you can watch all of our shows out there. We’d appreciate it. Keep following along. We’ve been doing this for five and a half years and not planning to stop anytime soon, so appreciate all the loyal followers out there. If you’re new, we appreciate you too. Until the next episode. Keep on fighting for freedom. We’ll see you on the next one.
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