Brandon Bateman shares his secrets to using pay per click to get motivated sellers calling you quickly. When seller’s call you instead of you calling them they are much more motivated.
Resources and Links from this show:
- Investor Fuel Real Estate Mastermind
- FlipNerd Real Estate Investor Facebook Group: Join for Free!
- Investor Machine Real Estate Lead Generation
- Batemen Collective
- Brandon on Facebook
- Dylan Tanaka’s website
Listen to the Audio Version of this Episode
FlipNerd Show Transcript:
Dylan: [00:00:00] Hey, everybody on today’s show. We are gonna talk about the number one fastest way to get sellers to call you today. Welcome to real
estate investing secrets. We’re all looking for freedom and the opportunity to live better, more fulfilling lives. But most of us were trained our entire lives to work for someone else and chase
How can we use real estate investing as a vehicle to achieve financial freedom? My life is dedicated to answering your real estate investing questions and helping you build an investing business that allows you to change your. And the world around you and to enable you to turn your dreams of financial freedom into a reality, my name is Mike Handbright from flipnerd.com and your questions get answered here on the real estate investing secrets show.
Dylan: Hey Brandon. Welcome to the show.
Brandon: Hey, how you doing Dylan?
Dylan: I’m doing really well, man. I am excited to have you on here because, uh, we’ve done a handful of new Flipnerd [00:01:00] podcast shows. And we haven’t gotten to talk about one of my favorite aspects of real estate investing, and that is marketing. And you represent one of the, uh, probably most mysterious yet, uh, powerful ways to market to get leads.
So let’s just start off with you, Brandon, why don’t you tell us a little bit about how you. Into real estate investing.
Brandon: Yeah. Good. Good question. So I’m the, I think I’m the weirdo in this, in this crowd, whatever crowd we’re in. Um, since like everybody, I, everybody, I meet everybody. I talk to like, they’re a real estate investor.
They found this problem. They solved that problem. Now they’re helping other people solve that problem. And you know, there they are, uh, So I’m a, I’m a weirder in the sense I’m a marketer first, not a real estate investor first. Um, I kinda went back backwards, you know, I started with the, the marketing side.
Um, I, I now do some real estate investing, although most, mostly passive type stuff. Um, and I’d say I’m definitely a better guy to talk to about marketing than real estate investing. Um, [00:02:00] but I love this world. Um, I. Probably, uh, talk about real estate investing more than almost anybody in this world, for someone who doesn’t do that much of it, just because this is the world that I’m in all day, every day.
Um, because we’re working with, uh, with, with all kinds of different companies on motivated seller Legion, um, and that’s, uh, yeah, that’s, that’s the world that we’re in. That’s what I’m good at is stick with it.
Dylan: So you, you kind of said the keyword there, it’s motivated seller lead generation. And our audience in this show is, is newbies, which, listen, I embrace newbies.
Some people don’t like the term. I love it. I’ve been working with new investors forever and some old dogs like me. So, um, One of the most important parts about being a real estate investor usually is being able to buy properties from motivated sellers that are off market. So why don’t you explain to everybody what, what you do, what your company does and, and really break down what we call PPC and how that, uh, has kind of revolutionized part of our business.[00:03:00]
Brandon: Yeah. So. If, if you look at marketing, there’s, there’s all kinds of different ways. Of course. And the reality is like people try to bash on different marketing channels. They all work to some extent, maybe they cost different amounts of money. Maybe they give you different types of leads. The reality is almost any marketing channel.
There’s someone out there who’s absolutely killing it on that channel. Um, the, the thing that, uh, makes. PPC different from pretty much any other marketing channel is the way that it starts. All of these other ones start with, like, for example, a cold call. You’re calling the seller, uh, a direct mail campaign.
You’re reaching the seller with the, with mail. Um, it could be a TV campaign where you’re pushing out ads to the seller. The, the thing that’s different about P PPC is it starts with the seller, not with you. And it starts with them search. Um, cuz believe it or not. When someone searches on Google, for example, is actually more predictive of their behavior than almost any other thing about them, because it shows intent.
And that’s what search marketing is. It’s intent based marketing you market to people who have an intent to take a certain action. Um, like for example, if someone were to search under Google, like [00:04:00] sell my house fast for cash, There’s a really good chance that whatever they see on that page is going to influence their decision and what the decision is is who are they gonna sell their house for cash too?
Uh, so that’s basically the art of pay per click advertising. It’s, it’s the game of getting those people to come to you instead of you going to them. And what is, uh, great about that is it’s a whole different type of lead because these people are more motivated, um, and they are more likely to act fast than the other types of leads that you can generate.
Dylan: Yeah, I, I agree with that. So if we rewind a little bit, there’s probably three or four main channels that most real estate investors, uh, know and use, right? So direct mail, which is direct response, but again, it’s us reaching out to the potential seller or client, uh, you can use. Things like bandit signs.
We used to call that gorilla marketing or door knocking. You have cold calling. Uh, and then there’s, there’s some, there’s some other stuff that’s out there too. Referrals are great, but you can’t count on referrals, right? You can’t really put a number to it. And, um, I don’t [00:05:00] personally use a lot of pay per click marketing, but I spend time with guys and gals who are, in my opinion, absolute snipers.
Some of them are clients of yours and. Blows me away is the fact that, uh, you have to, you have to have a, a running baseline. And I don’t know if you guys look at that as three six or you know, nine, 12 months, but I’ve talked to guys who know exactly when they turn up their paper, click marketing, what’s gonna happen, how many phone calls they can generate.
And I know it’s not an exact science, but it’s, it’s exciting to me because as a, uh, as someone who uses a lot of direct mail and some of those old school ways to do business, you kind of have to sit and. Where it seems like with you guys, you can kind of crank it up and make things happen.
Brandon: Yeah. I mean, there’s new people searching on Google every single day.
Right. It’s uh, it’s a revolving list. That’s, that’s, uh, different all the time. So it’s, uh, I, I think a really powerful channel. Um, one thing that I’ve noticed, that’s a trend that’s kind of cool is if you look at this versus some older channels, [00:06:00] um, you know, all people. I mean, the, the new old people are different from the old, old people.
If that makes sense, like generations are kind of shifting a lot of these people know how to use Google now. Um, and we, we are seeing that in the search volumes. If you look at like, like we can track how many people are searching on Google for different things, believe it or not. If you take like that core group of keywords that people searching to Google that indicate that they’re a motivated seller.
There’s three times as many people searching those on a daily basis now compared to in 2018. So that’s about four years. and about a three X increase. Um, and it’s been increasing exponentially all the way back since 2004 when our data set begins. So it’s, uh, I, I definitely think it’s interesting. I think it’s relevant, um, compared to its other channels.
Um, I, I do think the other channels still work. Um, but in terms of like future proofing channels, I, I think that digital’s definitely, uh, um, differentiated from the other ones, just in the sense that it’s growing as opposed to shrink.
Dylan: [00:07:00] Sure definitely growing as opposed to shrinking. I can see that. And, um, Brandon talk a little bit about, I guess, the speed that can happen with digital advertising or marketing versus again, those older channels.
Brandon: So it is, uh, it is true that if you send someone, for example, a piece of. Mail, they might not respond to you for nine months. They’ll post on their fridge and they’ll eventually get back to you and stuff like that. I think one thing that I consistently see across our clients, um, with pay per click leads specifically, is that they’ll they’ll measure in, in their CRM, every lead what’s the average time between when that lead comes in and when they get it under contract and almost without exception for our clients, PPC leads have that shortest time though, meaning.
There’s gonna be some that take a long time to close. Right? Of course it it’s normal, but it’s on average gonna be a shorter time than, than any other marketing channel for the most part. Um, and lead gen can start relatively quickly after you, you start [00:08:00] it. Um, basically whatever you spend today produces leads today on pay per click.
You don’t spend money today. That produces leads. You could spend money today that teaches you maybe how could you do it better tomorrow to produce more leads tomorrow? That happens all the time, but it’s not like direct mail where you send out the mail today and you get a call in a month from that piece of mail that you sent today.
Um, you get all the calls you’re gonna get right now and then maybe some of those take time to turn into deals. Uh, so, so on one hand, it’s really quick. On the other hand, we have to be aware that like with most marketing consistency is key. Um, and there’s a lot of clients who work. Like will, I mean, usually you get something from the beginning, but maybe it’s not the right kind of lead.
Maybe it’s not as many leads as you’re expecting stuff like that. That’s why I generally say you gotta be ready to be consistent. Um, you have to plan. I, and I think this is true with any marketing channel. You’ve gotta basically pencil out that budget for the next, um, for the next six months, be ready to spend and be consistent with it, especially if it’s a smaller budget.
So there’s gonna be a lot of variability with it. Um, but I do think that the. It’s uh, can in many ways be [00:09:00] faster than other marketing channels, which is, which is a huge bonus, especially getting started.
Dylan: Yeah, no, that makes a ton of sense. And Brandon, you touched on two things there. Number one, uh, this is a business principle.
You’re an entrepreneur, I’m an entrepreneur, whether I focus a hundred percent on real estate, uh, and you focus, you know, most of your time on marketing really doesn’t change what our goal is. Right? Our goal is, is to create revenue, right, and, and, uh, have a as high as profits as possible. So you talked about the, the life of a, um, a paper click, potential seller, how that goes under contract quicker.
Hopefully, right. It closes faster. It brings us cash quicker. Um, so I guess as a, as an entrepreneur, you know, how, how important do you think that that is, uh, to the average real estate investor that, that you get to work with nationwide?
Brandon: Well, I don’t know your experience, Dylan. I don’t know many real estate investors that have a ton of cash.
Um, it’s kinda, it’s almost an oxymoron to, to say that. So, you know, a liquid real estate investor, you know, that that [00:10:00] practically doesn’t exist. So the cash conversion is. Huge. It’s absolutely huge. There’s a lot of people in this industry who say that your cash conversion cycle, like how much time is there between when you spend a dollar on marketing and you actually get that dollar back is one of the most important metrics in the entire business.
In, in some ways you could say it’s even more important than the return on investment. Of course, return on invest is really important, but if you can’t, uh, like if, or if a return on investment comes over 10 years, it’s a really big difference than it coming over. Um, 10 weeks. Or something like that. So, so I’d say yes, that that’s absolutely important.
And it’s definitely a place where, where PPC shines compared to, to other things. Um, just because it’s like, just picture like that cold call lead, where, you know, you keep on calling them back and, you know, they’re sort of interested, but the timing’s not right. And stuff. It’s like the fact that the timing is right, is almost implied with the PPC lead because you got them when they were searching.
Right. They initiated the timing. And again, like you’ll, we have clients that close deal three years after they got a PPC lead. [00:11:00] That happens. Like if you’re doing your follow up game, right. That will happen. Um, but there’ll be a lot of people where it’s the right time, because magically you happen to find them just when they were thinking about it, just when they were wanting to take.
Dylan: So Brandon, if I’m a new real estate investor and I’m listening to this podcast or watching the show right now, and I’m hearing these terms, PPC and pay per click, right. Um, digital marketing and advertising. Can, can you take, uh, and kind of create a case study for us right now? How does it work when the average, uh, potential seller kind of stumbles upon that marketing?
Take us through the mindset and, and I think through the mechanics of, of what you would say happens.
Brandon: So, so step one is that the seller is motivated by something, right? And nobody takes action. If they’re not motivated in some way or another, you can call it good motivation, bad motivation, whatever. Um, but they have a problem that problem drives to take action, look for solutions.
So they go to Google. So imagine just typing into the address [00:12:00] bar or into the search bar and Google you’re searching for something. After they do that search, then they’re gonna get the results page and that. Two main things that break it up. You could say there’s paid results. And then there’s organic results.
Uh, paid results are at the top. It’s usually four ads that show up, and these are the paper click ads beyond that is all the organic results. Um, and you know, a lot of people that are business savvy understand that. The reality is most motivated. Sellers don’t even know that those are ads on the top.
They’re just, you know, they look almost the same. Google has made it so inconspicuous, they put like a teeny little gray symbol that says, add on it next to them. They look like search results. And if you’re on a mobile device, for example, which most people are by the way, you have to scroll for really long time to find something.
That’s not an ad on Google. So the reality is, um, they’re gonna search they’re most likely going to click on something close to the top of the page. Uh, statistically, those things get a lot more clicks. And when they click on that, just like when you click on any website from, from Google, you’re going to have something to show up.
It’s a [00:13:00] landing page of some sort. Um, in, in our case for our clients, what we do there is, um, we basically explain some of the key benefits of working with you. And then there’s a form that they can fill out. That’s where the call to action is. Essentially you’re telling this person, if you fill out this form, then we’ll get you a cash.
And they fill it out with like their phone number, um, their property address, some additional information and submit it. Um, the experience after that is that that lead gets sent to our client and our client calls that person. Um, and then from that point, manages it like a typical lead and hopefully closes the deal.
Um, and ideally from the seller’s point of view, it’s, it’s a very quick experience. They, they search, they find what they’re looking for. It, they reach out that person gets them very quickly and. From that point on hopefully their pain is solved, which is what they wanted to do and you get what you want.
Dylan: And, and how important is it, Brandon? Um, this isn’t really about sales training today, but sales has to come into play. You can be the greatest pay per click management company, right? [00:14:00] Digital, digital marketing agency. And if. If I’m your client and, and you’re getting me phone calls, but I don’t know how to talk to the people or I’m not getting back to them quickly.
I think that’s really the important part. But how important do you, do you find that speed to lead? And do you, do you know any, uh, national averages working with so many real estate investors? How quickly they try to get back or have to get back to a, a paper click lead that comes in.
Brandon: Yeah, it’s, it’s a really good question.
Cause we, we actually measure lead management in a lot of ways across our clients. Um, cause we know it matters a lot. Um, and, and there’s a lot of fluffy things on there and there’s some really non fluffy things like how long does it take you to get to a lead? It’s just, it’s a number, right? And, and we find that basically the quicker, the better when it comes to those leads, it is like to the extent that there’s, there’s a measurable difference in lead conversion between our clients that get to leads within 60 seconds, compared to those that get to leads within five minutes.
And that’s where 60 seconds is our gold standard. And there’s, there’s a good reason for it. Just, just imagine in that journey, like [00:15:00] a, seller’s probably gonna reach out to several people. You always have to imagine when a lead comes in, that they probably reached out to someone else before you, um, it’s a fair assumption and in many cases it’ll be true.
And maybe they reached out to that other company two minutes ago. And if that company’s gonna call them within three minutes, then you might have to call them within 60 seconds just to get to them before that other company. Um, because the thing is these people search because they have a pain, that pain is motivating in action.
The moment they talk to someone else and they believe that that person’s gonna solve their problem, that certainty that the pain will go away makes it feel like there is no pain. Um, so it’s, uh, but there’s always, I mean, every business time has this dynamic, like marketing think leads are hot and sales think leads are cold.
A lot of times they’re both right. Leads are hot. And by the time that sales gets them, they’re cold. And you know, everybody loses the, the reality is if you can be really, really quick, you can one catch a seller just the right time. But number two, it’s not just about the patients, the seller it’s [00:16:00] about the competi.
If you get to leads extremely quickly and you build rapport, what you do is you eliminate competition, which means it’s one more likely that you get the deal. And if you get the deal, it’s more likely that you buy it at the right price.
Dylan: So, yeah, ladies and gentlemen, again, if you’re watching or listening, you have to underscore this, this one’s huge Brandon, uh, deals with hundreds of real estate investors across the nation.
And, and I don’t, I don’t know the number, but has managed millions of dollars worth of paper clicks. Or he might even say like hundreds of billions by this point. I don’t know. I’m kidding. Of course. But he’s telling you right now. Oh, the B, but with an M probably right with an M only. So we’re working on B next year.
It’ll be a B when we have ’em back on the show, but in all seriousness, he’s telling you, you have to answer. Lead in th in 60 seconds. So if you can’t that’s okay. I think there’s some solutions we can just kind of talk about breeze over right now. Um, but if you’re not calling these pay per click potential sellers back within 60 seconds, you may lose.
And there’s two different reasons for that brand that touched on number one. Is competition. We never speak [00:17:00] ill of our competition. If you do, it kind of makes you look silly, but you wanna beat your competition by just being better. And there’s no one that can be better than you than the person in the mirror.
Right. So you’re always working on that yourself, but, but secondarily, uh, there’s a, an old mentor of mine and he always talked about when the phone rings. You have to pick it up. If it’s that bat phone, where those leads are calling in and it doesn’t necessarily have to be you, it doesn’t have to be someone on your team.
You can even have a live answer call, right? So that’s a solution. But when that person’s ready, especially motivated sellers, this isn’t just a high equity list and we’re sending out thousands and thousands of mailers a month that just kind of waiting for that old landlord to call you. This is someone who is actively.
Looking for help there’s something going on in their life or with that property. And they wanna eliminate that problem is what Brandon said. So what are they doing? They’re out there, they’re looking and they want help for that. So if they’re calling, you have to pick up, or if they’re putting that lead through, which is essentially what happens with paper, click through some type of web form.[00:18:00] You have to answer them immediately because when they’re ready, they’re ready. And when they are not, they’re never gonna answer the phone again. You can door knock ’em, you can post notices on the lawn. You can do anything, but you can never get them back on the phone. So SuperDuper important, take that one for sure.
And write it down 60 seconds or less to respond to that paper, click lead and, and Brandon, you know, you, and I know, uh, ladies and, and gentlemen who own multiple or own own companies with multiple acquisitions managers and lead managers. So what does some of those big companies do? Who are, who have, uh, a large budget and they may be spending tens of thousands per month on pay per click, or maybe hundreds of thousands.
And someone calls at, at midnight, let’s say in a hot market. Does, does that lead go to voicemail or what happens with a lot of those folks?
Brandon: Um, so the ones in the night, um, for the most part, our clients would just call them first day in the boarding. Um, it’s a, here’s the thing. Most, most paper click leads come through forum submissions, not phone.
So a little bit different, um, just because, you know, the [00:19:00] internet works a little bit different than, than mail and whatnot. So it’s a, you know, if it’s a inbound phone call call, you could definitely argue that. It’d be great to answer it at that time. If you could, if it’s a form submission, I don’t know how many people at midnight are expecting a call.
Right away when they just submitted the form. Uh, maybe, maybe a lot of our clients are making money on the table by no standard practice is usually like first thing the next morning they’re getting to it. If it’s in those weird hours, um, if it’s a big problem too, you can also choose what times of day to run your ads.
Um, now running them all times of day is. Usually gonna get you more leads. Um, so that’s, that’s generally preferred, but of course, if at some point you could do an analysis and you can see like, if your time in the night was wasted for whatever reason. Um, but, but yeah, it’s about being, uh, Sometimes it’s less about being quick and it’s more about being quicker than your competition.
Cause that’s what really matters the most. And if your competition is not calling at 2:00 AM, you probably don’t need to. And the seller might be a little quick out if you do is my guess. Um, although I’d be, I might have to ask a few [00:20:00] clients what they’re, what they’re doing with that, cuz uh, cuz I, I know that.
I do know that it’s not uncommon at all that I’m talking to a client and they say this lead came in at 2:00 AM. I called them at 7:00 AM. We got under contract at 8:00 AM, like that kind of thing. Um, so I do know for sure that our clients are getting deals in the night. Um, but I’d have to take a look at our data to see like, uh, you know, how’s the lead conversion vary.
And I wonder if we have any clients that are calling them at that time. I don’t know for sure.
Dylan: Probably not, but I wanted to see what your answer was again, because the, the incoming inbound calls versus incoming leads are different. And, uh, you would think that the person who is submitting a lead at 2:00 AM, which happens all the time, right.
Uh, may have that type of a job where they get off late or whatever, and they’re out doing their searching. They’re expecting a call in the morning. So that’s, that’s great to hear that. Um, so I, I, I have a, a, a question for you, uh, as far as the conversion goes, And I know this is gonna vary nationwide, but do you guys have data on the average pay per click?
Um, I guess, uh, lead that comes in, I know it’s different for most [00:21:00] markets, but what is the multiple typically, uh, in a, in a market that most investors see from pay, click leads as far as expense from a
Brandon: versus revenue standpoint? Yeah. Okay. I understand. Yeah. Um, so, so you mean you hit the nail on the head when you said it varies a ton?
Um, I’d say for, uh, for investors usually, and also this really depends on the team, right? Like, all you have to do is like, not answer your phone and when you hit zero super easy. So like, I, I would say for like, uh, you know, teams that I think are, are doing well and campaigns that are managed well, um, anything.
And, and these are long term numbers, cuz of course it takes into account, but there’s so time for leads to close and stuff like that. Anything from a, from a three X multiple up to say 10 X is relatively normal. Um, a lot of the factors that cause someone to be on either end of that, um, really small markets are kind of tough.
They tend to be a little bit lower. A lot of people think because I’m in the world middle of nowhere, it’s gonna be [00:22:00] really cheap. It’s not necessarily true. Um, some of our highest multiples are in the biggest, most competitive markets. Um, the other thing is also it’s about the size of the area that you’re targeting.
Um, to give an example you could take, and this is why like nationwide advertising is becoming more popular or like multi-state advertising multiple market advertising, um, with pay per click, just because it’s, it’s unique in the way that it works. Let’s just say you take. Two markets where people are getting a four X return on investment and you targeted them both.
You might have a five X return on investment because you always get a better return going wider. That’s where a lot of our clients are hitting 10 X plus are doing things like statewide or nationwide targeting with their ads, um, where they get a better return. It’s kind of that concept. Like I’m sure you’re aware with, with marketing.
It’s a really, it’s a really common concept that as you spend more money, you get diminishing return on investment. Um, that also goes the other way. So in some ways, like going wider, Maybe adding a market, for example, is the equivalent of [00:23:00] getting less of a diminishing return cuz in each market you’re spending a smaller amount of money, which allows you to be really picky just by the very best clicks, that kind of thing.
So it’s, it’s not like there’s like a certain multiple it’s, it’s the idea that like, that multiple’s really high. If you spend a small amount of money. You spend a high amount of money, it gets lower, but of course the volume increases, therefore profits usually increase up to a point of dimension returns and then scaling horizontally across markets is the equivalent of spending less in each market.
Therefore increasing your return overall, does that sort of make sense? I know.
Dylan: All deep. No, I, I think it makes sense. You know, um, as I said, our, you know, our, our, our audience, uh, is from newbies all the way up to, to people who may know more than you and I in this business. Right. So I think it makes sense.
I, I think, um, what I want to explore a little bit here is when it comes to pay per click advertising, Why, uh, and, and I’ve done pay per click, right? I’ve been, I’ve run ads for the last, I don’t know, 10 or 12 years. So I was in there in the very beginning before all these different updates came [00:24:00] in and I’ve been there afterwards.
And I can tell you it’s, uh, there’s a, there’s a lot to know, and, and, and unless you have a lot of money and a lot of time to test with marketing, it doesn’t matter if, if it’s, again, if it’s letters, if it’s door knocking, bandit signs or pay per click, you have to test, test, test, test, test. And I think the difference with pay per click and a lot of other, uh, channels.
It’s very expensive and difficult to send out a million mailers, but you could be seen, uh, being pushed out to a million different places very, very quickly. And, and know if your A’s good or bad, as you said, you can be across five states in a matter of, you know, multiple hours of setting up campaigns. So with that, I guess, you know, for the, for the people who are, who are watching and they’re like, you know, I I’m I’m do, I can do paper, click on my own.
Why bring in an agency talk about the difference between again, as, as the solo entrepreneur, trying to do their own pay per click versus bringing in experts like you guys to manage it for us.
Brandon: Yeah, it’s a good [00:25:00] question. Um, I mean, the disclaimer is you’ll find people successful both ways. Um, there’s horrible.
Self-managed PPC campaigns and there’s people who do well and, um, there’s horrible agency managed PPC campaigns and there’s others that do well. Um, and even from the same agency, you see both sometimes, you know, they have variability and whatnot. So, um, I think the. That, what we really want to think about is that scale produces leverage.
Um, think about it like this, like let’s just say, we’re talking about like hiring a CEO for your company. If your company has like a hundred thousand dollars a year in revenue. You can get the world’s best CEO, but you’re gonna pay a lot of money and it’s not gonna have very much leverage and it’s just not gonna be worth it.
Versus if your company’s doing a billion dollars a year in revenue, you put the right person there. Then if they can just make it 10% better, that’s worth so much more money. And the same is true for hiring an agency. Um, so what we find is, as your budget goes up [00:26:00] and up, it becomes more and more worth it to get expertise, um, on the campaign for the budgets that we work.
Typically we, we do, what’s called a break, even analysis for our clients. We look at the management fee that they pay us and we say, how much better would your results need to be for you to break even on paying us that management fee? Um, in other words, how much leverage do we have on average for our clients?
It’s about three to 4% better that the campaigns would need to perform to completely cover our management fee. Uh, which tells you that, like they’re working with budgets where our leverage makes a lot of sense. Um, and we certainly are outperforming what they were doing by more than three or 4%. Usually it’s closer to 30 or 40%.
So that’s where. I guess you have to look at it. So if you have a really small budget, your options are either like basically overpaying.
Dylan: What’s a, what’s a small budget. Brandon, just give us a little bit of context
Brandon: for me. It’s like less than three grand a month. That’s who we consider. Like it’s, it’s lower than we work with.
If someone has less than a $3,000 a month budget, not [00:27:00] really our space to work. Um, and you have limited options, honestly, cause like the agencies that you can afford are not that good. At that range. So it’s like, it’s a chicken or egg kind of deal. Right. You need, you need like the spend to be high enough for it to be worth it for someone talented enough to work on it, to make it work.
But a lot of people say, well, I have to get the results first to get to that point. But like, but you get the results, you don’t have the right kinda people managing the project. So it’s, it’s one of those things where it’s like you kind of, despite the bullet one day. Um, but my opinion is if you’re kind of below that point, um, honestly, most people self-managing, don’t don’t.
Super far with it. It’s easy. Like Google will take your money and leave you with nothing. They it’s, it’s really easy
Dylan: to, it’s like a slot machine. If you don’t know what you’re doing, right. Or even if you do know what you’re doing. Yes. It’s
Brandon: like, there, there are like, I have people on my team dedicated decades of their life to understand in this world.
And it’s, uh, optimistic to say that you’re gonna conquer that world. And you. With your YouTube videos or something. Um, [00:28:00] it’s very nuanced. So, so that’s where I’d say like for, for the most part, like some people get, get more lucky than others and definitely some people are more naturally inclined to be good at this kind of thing than others.
Um, but my honest opinion is if you’re working with less than three grand a month or something, it might make sense to work on another channel. That’s a little bit less of a. Like high risk, money, sucking kind of thing. Um, like I think at that range, like focusing on more of this gorilla marketing or cold calling or something like that can be really good.
Cause those channels are a little bit cheaper. Um, usually if you’re in that budget range, you probably have a little bit more time than you do money and those channels work really well for those scenarios. I think once you get past. The $3,000 per month budget range, you can kind of afford more so to hire good talent on the campaign, like working with us potentially.
And I think that, you know, that makes a lot more sense. Um, you’re also probably in the range where you start to have a little bit less time on your hands and you have a little bit more money. And that’s where I think paper click works miracles because it’s not the cheapest market in general, but what it is is it is a [00:29:00] marketing channel that produces some of the most qualified leads and it can have a good return on investment.
And the lead flow is slow compared to something like cold call, but they’re better. So what that means is it’s a, it’s a better return on time. And I think that definitely starts to make sense around those ranges. So that’s that, that’s kind of my opinion about it. Like you’ll find, you’ll find anomal of ways and stuff like that, but I’ve seen a lot of people waste a lot of money and I think its just, if, if you’re the thing is like people think, although that marketing campaign would be expensive, the reality is the most expensive marketing campaign is the one that doesn’t.
The cheapest marketing campaign is the one that is working really well. Um, and I would much, much rather spend $10,000 wisely than waste $500.
Dylan: Yeah. I think what I’m hearing you say is, um, paper click. There are, there are beginners who jump in with paper click, and they may manage it themselves. And that’s great, right?
We, we all start somewhere, but if you can get to that magic number and I’ll just use 10,000 to, to make it easy math for folks, you know, you’re talking about a three axis, kind of like a, a [00:30:00] worst case scenario for closed deals. So you’re gonna spend. And you’re gonna make 30. Right. And, and that’s kind of on the, on the low range there.
Um, and, and I guess what I understand as being in business for a long time is that you can spend a lot of time, I guess, digging holes with a shovel or you, you can pay him, you know, a guy with a backhoe to doing it’s gonna happen much quicker. Um, so if you, if you look at it in terms of, um, You may close less deals sometimes, but they’re going to be easier to close.
You’re gonna spend less time following up, uh, until you get that budget built up. So to me, it’s, uh, it’s how much time that you’re actually putting in. Again, some of us do have more time than money, as you said, but once you kind of cross that threshold, now it’s time to incrementally start building your business better.
And it sounds like to me, paper click is, is one of those first steps. That entrepreneurs or real estate investors, uh, who are, who are there. They need to employ that, that tactic, if they’re not using it in that marketing channel,
Brandon: for sure. In a lot of these things that you’re [00:31:00] saying, like, I know, you know, a lot of high level investors, we also know a lot of high level investors.
We work with a lot of higher level investors. The mindset difference is those that are higher level are willing to put more. and more consistency into their marketing than those that aren’t. And I think it’s really easy to look at those people and say, they’re success. Like they’re willing to do that because they are successful.
Of course, they’re willing to do it. They have more money. If I had that much money, I’d be willing to do that. But I I’ve seen those people full circle from the beginning all the way to the end. I can tell you they’re in that position because they think that way they don’t think they’re that way because they’re in that.
I firmly believe it. We can often see when we talk to a client that’s like, like just starting out. Like you can tell just by seeing the mindset, like where they’re gonna end up and it’s willingness to spend and spend that money consistently. That seems to differentiate people.
Dylan: Well, and this is why we’re able to joke earlier, Brandon, we talked about, uh, real estate investors, basically always being broke, meaning that every time there’s an extra 50,000 that comes in, if they’re successful, they’re like, where can I [00:32:00] put these bullets?
You know, and, and what gun do I put these bullets? Because if I spend 50 and three X is, is low, I think across all marketing channels, but. It’s, it’s good to look at it from a conservative standpoint, but if you spend 50, you’re gonna BR bring in one 50 and if you’re good and you spend 50, you might bring in two 50 and maybe even 500 on those home home run deals.
But that’s why, again, as you said earlier, you know, as real estate investors, they’re never flush with cash because we’re always out there fishing, fishing, fishing, and spending the best, uh, investors. As, as you said, I know 100. Spend the most on marketing because you can’t stop. And you know, we, you, you hear different markets are coming and shifts are coming.
Um, but that’s something you and I talked about a little bit before we started the show was what’s the difference. Um, when there are more and more sellers who are in the market who are feeling distress, they’re gonna be out seeking. Investors who are going to be there to, to help them out of their problems, which are properties.
And as the, as the new people kinda are, are [00:33:00] crawling and, and crawl, you know, scratching to put that budget together, the newer investors, the guys and gals who are there and, and tried and true. And as you said, you know, they’re consistent. They’re gonna be picking up even more leads.
Brandon: Absolutely. It’s, uh, I think we’re, we’re in for feast on motivated seller leads.
Um, so it’s, uh, I mean the trend has been there for sure. Um, with the number of people increasing better searching and everything, it’s just, it’s, it’s about not stopping when it comes to marketing. Uh, it’s always about putting yourself in a position of opportunity. Um, and, and I can tell you certainly compared to other investments, um, the risk versus reward is very positive.
Marketing like I, myself struggled for a long time to like, be willing to spend the money. Um, but it’s not a, it’s not a wealthy mindset, those that, uh, those that do well it’s cuz they’re, they’re willing to risk and, and they’re willing, they don’t just make dumb bets. They, they make smart bets, uh, where the risk versus rewards positive.
And honestly, of [00:34:00] all the, of all the investments I know of like marketing budget. Within a company in a well designed well executed campaign. I, I know of no better investment. Um, especially at the beginning when building.
Dylan: Yeah, essentially you market or die. And, uh, I’ve been around since, before the foreclosure days in, in the early two thousands, I weathered those storms.
Uh, you know, again, it was shooting fish in a barrel buying properties during the bad days, coming out of the bad days, going through this boom, maybe we’re we’re sliding or slowing down. You never know it, it it’s always coming right. The waves always, always out there. Um, and you have to be prepared for it, but, um, It’s uh, it’s exciting times.
And when you build your business the right way, you are ready for anything that that comes. And I think, um, you know, that that’s, that’s a Testament to your, to pay per click because you have to have multiple different channels, um, to bring in leads. And if you stop marketing, you die and you don’t want to die.
Right. You wanna keep flipping houses and building your rental portfolio and everything else [00:35:00] that goes along with it. So, Brandon, let me ask you this. Oh, go ahead. You have, you have something. See you there. Oh, I was just agreeing that’s
Brandon: all. Oh,
Dylan: just pretentious. That’s all right. Right, right. He’s like, hallelujah.
So, um, so if the, if the Bateman collective can give one really, really strong piece of advice that we’re going to chisel into stone right now and put it on the wall behind us, um, for newer investors or, or those who are, who are almost there and, and they’re ready to get to that next level, what would it be?
Brandon: Yeah, that’s, that’s a really good question. I would say. what you gotta do is carve out some budget, set it aside, pretend you’re putting that money into escrow and you’re ready to be consistent with your marketing, newer investors. Probably the biggest thing that I see them making as a mistake is essentially just, uh, constantly in and out with marketing and last lacking that consistency.
And they try seven different channels, but don’t give any channel [00:36:00] enough time to work. Cause the reality is every channel works. But it might not work right away and it might not work how you expect it to work. So work with an expert, trust them, set the money aside. Basically you, you should, when you figure out marketing, you should go to experts and you should ask ’em like those who are successful with this, what is it that they do?
Tell me step by step. You wanna think not from the standpoint of, I’m gonna try this for a month and see if it works. But from the standpoint, if I’m gonna do this for so long, that it would be completely unreasonable for me to not find success. With this campaign and I’m gonna do everything in my power to be successful.
And when you have the money set aside, you’re ready to be consistent. You’re a lot more likely to actually get there and you don’t need every marketing channel to work. You need one good marketing channel when you’re like getting from like zero to the six or seven figure range in your business. Um, you only need one good marketing channel and it’s just gotta work.
Right. So, so I think that level of focus would, would mean a lot for.
Dylan: Yeah, no, Brandon, I love that. That’s a great answer. And, and for you guys who are listening, if you guys [00:37:00] don’t know who Brandon Bateman is, he’s talking, he’s speaking with a, you know, an abundant mindset right now. I gave him, I gave him the shot to say only use paper, click, and that’s not what he said.
He said, put together a marketing budget, lock it away and say that whether, whether that’s 5,000. 10,000 or $20,000 a month, you know, upwards to a million dollars a month. Have that set aside because the minute you stop marketing, everything starts to fall apart. And Brandon wants you to do well because the better you do, the more paper click you’re gonna do when you hire him.
Right. And, and it’s the same. We all want. As many investors to be successful as possible because it brings our whole industry up and, and the world as a whole. So, um, so that’s a great answer. Uh, I think that’s probably one of the best answers I’ve heard so far on, on the show. So you get the trophy so far, Brandon.
Thank you, Dylan.
Brandon: I’m, I’m honored. nothing, nothing I’ve ever wanted more in
Dylan: this life. I will bring you on. I don’t have one behind me. I do have a, a, a little trophy, but I will bring you on the next time I see you, uh, in, I [00:38:00] think Nashville’s the next time we’ll see each other in, uh, in a couple months or so.
So Brandon, what is the absolute best way for people to find you in your company, uh, who are listening to this show today?
Brandon: You can, uh, you can reach out on our website, uh it’s statement, collective.com. So, uh, I’m sure you can throw that in the show notes and, and people can go find us there. Um, and, and if anybody’s interested in working with us, uh, you can, you can definitely reach out there.
And someone from my team will, we’ll have a discovery call with you and go through all the details, um, and all that kind of stuff. And one other thing that you can do, um, if there’s anybody listening that either. Has a digital marketing campaign of some sort, maybe it’s Facebook ads, Google ads, SEO. It’s just not meeting expectations, um, or maybe it’s working, but I think it could be better.
Or if you’ve ever had a campaign like that, um, what we can do is we can have our analyst on our team do a free analysis of the account. So we’ll dig through everything. Um, oftentimes all that investors know in those kinds of scenarios is that it [00:39:00] didn’t work. What they don’t know is what didn’t work. Was it them?
Was it their team? Was it the, the marketing, could it be the keywords? Was the landing page not converting, right. Were the ads not written properly? Uh, like, I mean, there’s, there’s a list of like, with this kind of stuff, it’s like thousand things you kind of do. Right. And you don’t do one. Right. And then everything doesn’t work because of it.
Um, and the reality is our team actually knows how to find out what that thing is. And. I think if, uh, if a marketing campaign doesn’t work, you at least have to know why. Uh, so anyways, that’s a, that’s a huge value add that that will be willing to provide. Um, if anybody wants us to take a look, uh, if you run a campaign already,
Brandon, thank you. And, and we’re gonna have a link to, uh, to Brandon site below. So if you guys want a free audit on and, and your, um, and your pay per click, Click through there, have them take a look at it, see what you may be missing. And you may go from that three X to 10 X. And if you guys missed anything, we take all the notes so that you don’t have to, you just go to flipper.com/dylan, [00:40:00] click on this show.
And there is a transcript of everything that we talked about. And while you’re listening, make sure that you guys subscribe. And if you haven’t already give us a glowing review on. iTunes or Spotify or wherever you’re listening to this. And if you aren’t already subscribed, you guys can subscribe to the, to the YouTube show or YouTube channel and watch every show also.
So for Dylan to knocker your favorite real estate investor for Metro Detroit and Brandon Bateman, we appreciate your time and we will see you guys on the next show.
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