Stepping Stones to Freedom

Mike: Welcome to “Real Estate Investing Secrets.” We are all looking for freedom and the opportunity to live better, more fulfilling lives. But most of us were trained our entire lives to work for someone else and chase their dreams. How can we use real estate investing as a vehicle to achieve financial freedom? My life is dedicated to answering your real estate investing questions and helping you build an investing business that allows you to change your life and the world around you, and to enable you to turn your dreams of financial freedom into a reality. My name is Mike Hambright from FlipNerd.com, and your questions get answered here on the “Real Estate Investing Secrets” show.
What’s up, freedom fighters. Hey, welcome back. This is episode number 468 with my buddy Andrew Graham. And I’m excited to talk about this topic and for you guys to get to know Andrew a little bit better. He’s a great guy. He’s been through some different things in life. And a lot of us have, right? They kind of help you understand why controlling your own destiny is important really. And that’s what we’re going to talk about today, it’s really kind of stepping stones, the seasons of your life to get you closer to freedom. And a lot of times you don’t know what those are initially. You think you know, when you get there and you’re like, “No, this isn’t it. Let’s keep going forward here.”
So we might get a little deep today. But truthfully, for all of us that are real estate investors, this is why we work so hard. This is why we do what we do is to have kind of more freedoms in our life and be able to kind of find our own way to success, whatever that means for us.
So, Andrew, welcome to the show, buddy.
Andrew: Thank you, Mike. Awesome to be here, man. I appreciate the invitation.
Mike: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And it was great. Andrew, recently joined our Investor Fuel Mastermind, and we had a chance to meet at our last event, and it was awesome getting to know you better, and you’ve got a great story, too. In fact, why don’t you tell people a little bit about you? Like most people, you know, you didn’t start in real estate investing. You found your way there. So just kind of tell us your story a little bit about how you got into real estate investing.
Andrew: Yeah, no, that’s actually a very important story for me. So, before I got into real estate, actually, I was a registered nurse, and I worked as an emergency room nurse for probably seven, eight years. And then, there was, you know, a major life event that happened where, you know, a family member, my dad actually, was injured in an ATV accident and was brought into the emergency room where I worked at. And, you know, he had a major brain injury and severe trauma, several broken ribs. And it was really hard, you know, to be there and see that and have to be a part of that. And, you know, I would go visit him while he was in intensive care hooked to a ventilator, and just realizing that, you know, what am I doing with my life, because I was kind of miserable in my job. You know, nursing is a great profession and definitely doing God’s work. But, you know, I was getting burned out.
Mike: Yeah.
Andrew: And through that, I was able to make the decision that I’d always had an interest in real estate. And, you know, something like that just made me really realize that, you know, life’s too short and, you know, I need to do what I want to do. And luckily, my dad had a full recovery, but it was definitely the catalyst that got me into real estate.
Mike: Yeah. And my mom was a nurse and I used to hear stories. She was never an ER nurse, though. Like, I can I can only imagine just you seeing people’s lives flashed before their eyes, right? You can’t help but think about yourself, like, “What if that was me on that bed? Would I, you know, would I have regrets? Like, am I doing the right thing, right?” I mean, I can’t imagine the kind of opportunity to self-reflect on that even though you were helping patients, right, but that’s amazing.
Andrew: No, and that’s what kind of brought it home for me is because, you know, working in the ER, you are dealing with, you know, life and death every day. But it didn’t become personal until, you know, that episode with my dad. And then you know, it really drove it home where before, it was just, you know, [inaudible 00:04:19].
Mike: Did you know he was coming in or he just came in [inaudible 00:04:24]?
Andrew: No, my step mom, you know, called me and told me that, you know, what had happened and . . .
Mike: I can’t imagine, man.
Andrew: He was on the way there. So yeah, I’d be there every day, you know, working and knowing that he was, you know, upstairs. But yeah, I was glad he came out of. And I’m, actually, glad that he was there instead of somewhere else, so I knew he could, you know, get the best care possible and I’d keep an eye on him.
Mike: Sure. Sure Wow. And so at some point after that happened, you realized that you needed to take a little more control of your destiny, right?
Andrew: Yes, I did. I went and got my . . . went and started taking real estate agent courses. And I started out as a real estate agent after I left nursing, and, you know, did . . . that was 2006, I think. And probably for 2006, at the end of 2006, which was really, you know, the beginnings of the recession. So it wasn’t great timing in that I had started going into real estate and especially new as an agent, you know, it takes a while to build that business.
Mike: Yeah.
Andrew: And then the recession hit. So there were certainly some lean years there, for sure, in the beginning.
Mike: Yeah. And when did you go full time into real estate? Was it then or was a little bit later?
Andrew: It was then. It was end of 2006. And, you know, it was, like I said, some hard years there and definitely had the pull to, you know, quit and go back to a more steady job. But then, you know, realizing that I didn’t want some, you know, CEO sitting in his, you know, executive office behind a mahogany desk putting a value on what my life was worth, you know, work-wise. Like, you know, you go to work for somebody else you’re only worth so much to them. And what that dollar amount was and I was like, “No, I’m going to stick through it.” And so glad I did. And I made the leap after, you know, then things started getting better and then I got kind of tired of doing retail brokerage, and I started . . . and I’ve done some investing along the way, especially during the recession or helping other investors . . .
Mike: All in the Charlotte area by the way, right?
Andrew: All in Charlotte, North Carolina. Yeah. And then about the middle of 2015 is when I started exclusively working in the investment world. And yeah, I still have my license, but I don’t really broker deals for, you know, other folks.
Mike: Yeah, there’s a lot more money to be made on the investing side, right?
Andrew: Oh, God. Yeah, I mean, to what you can make investing versus what that would take to making a real estate commission, as the workload and the stress is night and day, for sure.
Mike: Yeah, yeah. So let’s talk about because, you know, you’re on this journey to freedom, whatever that might mean for you. And I want people that are listening to be thinking of their . . . what is their kind of path, you know? And, I think, sometimes people get hung up on going from, you know, we have coaching students, and they come in to our program and stuff. And sometimes people are making, let’s just hypothetically say somebody’s making $50,000 a year, and I’m like, “What’s your goal for next year? They’re like, “Man, I need to make a million.” Like, well, that’s not the next stepping stone. You know, like, “Let’s offset your income first, right? And then [inaudible 00:07:39].”
Andrew: Right.
Mike: So what happens is, I think, sometimes, and because of social media, because of, you know, “Flip This House” and TV shows on HGTV, people, they go from where they’re at and their goal seems so far off that they can’t get there and I feel like people give up too early, you know. And it’s because they set the goal too high. Now, you should stretch yourself for goals. But if you’re going to end up quitting because you can’t see a path there, then that’s not good. And so we try to help people like, “Hey, let’s set some intermediate goals here, right?”
And so your goal was take control of things. And then kind of talk about what’s happened over the last, you know, four years that you’ve been exclusively focused on real estate. Because, I’m guessing, you raised the bar on yourself, right? You got somewhere and you’re like, “Yeah, that’s cool. I thought that was my goal, but I’m just getting started, right?” And you just kind of keep raising the bar. So talk about that a little bit.
Andrew: Yeah, no, you’re exactly right. So, you know, my first year it’s exclusively wholesaling. I think I made like 70 grand or something like that, which is, you know, pretty good money still. But, of course, it wasn’t enough for me with the goals I had for, you know, personal, professionally, and then I was able to just, you know, 4X that the next year, and it’s just grown and grown each year. So now I look at, you know, what I made, you know, say, two or three years ago when I first started, you know, exclusively just buying and flipping, wholesaling. And I thought, “Wow, that was great money.” And now, I look at it, which is still was but it’s still you know, there’s more . . . and it’s not about just making money. It’s creating a lifestyle.
Mike: Yeah. Impact, all those things, right?
Andrew: Impact, exactly. Giving back because, you know, the more you’re able to earn then, you know, the more I’m able to give back and have big results in that. So it kind of fuels the fire for that, especially with, you know, being able to give back.
Mike: Yep, yep. And then, you know, you told me before we started here, you know, one of your next goals is to try to retire your wife, right? I mean, you started to look at your family. “How can I make us as a family unit, what can I do to improve my family’s life, right?
Andrew: Right. Right. Yes, no, I would love to be able to do that. And just, you know, retire [debt 00:10:07] just, you know, pay off, you know, rentals, primary house, retire my wife, and just create that lifestyle to where, you know, you don’t have to worry about, you know, paying the bills and your money’s making money for you even in your sleep.
Mike: Yeah.
Andrew: And, you know, that’s absolutely, you know, what the goal is. And be able to do more with my family.
Mike: Sure, sure.
Andrew: Yeah.
Mike: And we were talking a little bit maybe we can kind of continue the discussion we started a little bit beforehand it’s like, once you get . . . and I’m hoping the people that are listening are kind of digesting this and learning from this is like, once you get to a point where you don’t have to worry about paying the bills tomorrow, then you’re able to . . . it’s just like you’re able to take more risk, you’re able to breathe easier. Like, you don’t have to worry. That doesn’t mean you don’t work just as hard. It just means, like, that’s where growth happens, right? You go from like, maintaining is, “I’m not worried about that anymore.” Now it’s like, “What can I do to really, you know, get a hockey stick to my growth and my financial situation, right?”
And so, like, when you have that realization of like, “Hey.” Because, obviously, you’re mostly wholesaling, it’s like, “Hey, wholesaling is great. But I’m only as good as my next transaction, right?” And it can be a great business, and it can be a great foundation. But from that, you can add rentals. I know you’re talked about some development stuff, maybe even some multifamily. Like, talk about that realization of getting to a point where you realized you start to set the bar for higher for where you’re going.
Andrew: Well, yeah. Definitely, with the wholesale operation and even when I was just a, you know, it was just me and just the realization of how you can build a team, right and just start adding people to do the things that you don’t want to do anymore or to be able to not have to answer to phone, not go on appointments. Not that I don’t like do that. I still do that occasionally just to keep myself sharp and show, you know, my team members that I’m willing to get in there in the trenches, that there’s nothing that is too good for me. And, I think, that . . .
Mike: You just can’t scale that if you’re doing it all.
Andrew: You can’t scale it if you’re doing it all, right. So once I, you know, built this team out and then it’s kind of on autopilot and I’m just kind of managing, you know, the people somewhat, you know, and other aspects of it, then it’s like, “Okay, well what else can I do now that I have this free time?” And that would be, you know, adding the rentals, multifamily. I’m looking at, you know, I’ve got a development deal under contract right now that I haven’t done development before, but it’s not a big risk for me for what I have it under contract for. So just to see what happens because that could open up another avenue and networks and resources that could help, of course, keep the machine going and ultimately, you know, help me and help my family and help to give back in other bigger ways.
Mike: Yeah. Yeah. It’s kind of like were joking earlier it was kind of like real-life monopoly, right? You start with a little houses, you might grow it up hotels or things that can create some bigger paydays for you, and that’s how this business really works, right?
Andrew: Well, and I love it. I mean, and that’s what’s so great about real estate is that you’re not stuck in, you know, one segment of it. Whatever, you know, if you start out wholesaling or you know, buying and flipping whatever, there are so much other things you can do. I mean, multifamily, development, commercial, it’s just . . . and to learn all that and be an expert, it could take your whole life, really, to learn all the, you know, you just can’t learn it all.
And that’s even what I’ve told my team members is like, you know, what you’re going to learn here, it’s going to be different from what you learn when you were, you know, working wherever you were before, because you can’t necessarily take that skill set where you were working at a job before and do something for yourself with it, right? You can’t, you know, but here in real estate, if you want to do a deal, like get involved, I’m all for that, right? Because you’ll be able to . . . no matter what you do, what you learn here when you leave, you can still use those skills that you’ve learned here in order to do something for yourself and your family.
Mike: Yeah, absolutely. It’s transferable. It’s kind of . . .
Andrew: Transferable.
Mike: Multigenerational, like, you can teach your kids. I mean, a lot of us, you know, I came from a very blue collar family, and they didn’t have any, you know, hard work ethic, being a good character and things like that transfer down. But like, skill set that I could use for something else, there was no entrepreneurial skill set that handed down. I mean, truthfully, what we do as real estate entrepreneurs is very transferable into almost any other entrepreneurial venture, even outside of real estate, right? I mean, it’s all . . .
Andrew: Oh, yes.
Mike: Leads, we’re marketing, sales, basic operations. I mean, this is like . . . this is a fundamental entrepreneurship what we do, right?
Andrew: Oh, yeah. No, absolutely. You’re right. And I’m glad you mentioned that. Because, yeah, you could take this model of what we do as a marketing company, really, wholesale marketing company, and apply that to basically almost any other business out there.
Mike: Yeah. And that’s another realization I had. Not that I want to do it. But if you wanted to go out and sell widgets or whatever, bicycles. I mean, once you have that formula of how that marketing machine works, you can just plug and play and fit that into, you know, almost any other business model.
Mike: Yeah, even if your kids your kids grow up and they’re like, “The real estate thing, I don’t really want to do it.” Well, they want to do some other business. You know, you’re going to have these conversations with them, like, “Well, how are you going to find customers?” You know, where are you going to get your leads at? You’re going to need funding for this. How you going to raise that money?” I mean, it’s so transferable to other things. It’s amazing.
I feel, honestly, my son is 11. And I’m excited for him. I try to, interestingly enough, this is totally coincidental, he doesn’t really express a lot of interest in our business. You know, he just wants to play video games. So, but this morning, I’m driving him to school, and I popped in a podcast, and he’s like, “Oh.” Like he doesn’t want to listen to that, you know?
Andrew: Yeah.
Mike: And it was about a guy that went from single family to multifamily investing. And he started, he’s like, “Dad, what’s the difference between investing in apartments and houses? And he’s like, “Well, how much does the average apartment rent for?” I could see the wheels kind of turning there, you know? And I was like, “Oh, well.” So dropped him off. I was like, “Well, tomorrow, we’re going to listen to another one, you know?” Because I want that for him. I want to [inaudible 00:17:09].
Andrew: Absolutely.
Mike: . . . better for our kids, right? And I think we know that ultimately, they should feel armed to be . . . they may not want to do their own thing, and that’s okay. But at least they can. I never knew that was an option when I was growing up. Truthfully, I had to find my way there. But yeah.
Andrew: Very true.
Mike: Right. Like we want better lives for the generations behind us, right?
Andrew: Yes. And you know, even friends . . . it’s hard to even explain it sometimes to friends and colleagues because, you know, you’re not taught that in school, and you basically have to go, you know, find somebody to teach you that. Because, otherwise, when I talk to them about it is, you know, they look at me like I’m crazy sometimes some people. You know, other people get it. It’s just, you know, it’s definitely something that once you learn it, you know, the possibilities are endless, for sure.
Mike: Yeah. Well, if you wouldn’t mind, would you share . . . you, obviously, joined Investor Fuel here recently. And I know you’ve since doubled your advertising. And I don’t know if you look at things differently. But would you maybe just kind of share your experience there and help people that are listening right now that might be a good person to sit in the seat next to you at the next meeting. Like, you know, maybe why they should be there. But just maybe share your experience. This is totally unrehearsed. Hopefully, you’re going to say something positive. I don’t even know what you’re going to say, but . . .
Andrew: Oh, no, absolutely. Joining Investor Fuel was absolutely, you know, a great thing that I did. Just for likeminded individuals that are doing it at a high level, where people just check their egos at the door, which is, you know, big thing for me as well. It’s great to do. You know, I have an issue sometimes with what they call real estate, you know, gurus. And there’s nothing wrong with, you know, driving fancy cars and flying in private jets and etc. But sometimes, I feel like that instead, you know, for other people looking at that that creates a gulf instead of a bridge.
And with Investor Fuel, it’s a bridge, right? Instead of having this, I guess, what you could say, you know, this image of something that could be unattainable for most people because, “Well, I can never, you know, have that, you know, like kind of lifestyle.” So this is more real world and down to earth and people that are doing amazing things and doing very well for themselves. But, you know, you don’t see them with Rolexes and driving, you know, $300,000 cars. And if that’s your thing, that is completely okay. But, I think, it helps bring other people in to say, “Hey, you know, you can still, you know, have a great lifestyle but not have to, you know, showoff . . . well, not showoff. But, you know what I mean.
Mike: Right. You might have those things, but you don’t have to flash them to make [inaudible 00:20:28].
Andrew: You don’t have the flash them. And then, I think, the other people that are thinking about getting into real estate, I think, sometimes, that could turn them off like because they think they can’t accomplish something like that.
Mike: Yeah, yeah.
Andrew: You guys help build that bridge instead of sometimes I think a gulf that other folks might get, you know, a bad impression.
Mike: Yeah, one of our core beliefs and values in Investor Fuel and in all my businesses is sharing and giving, right? And you probably felt that culture there. We try to get people to pull out of them like sharing their knowledge, being open to sharing their knowledge with the group. How did you . . . I don’t know what you thought when you came in. How did it maybe change and maybe open you up to be willing to kind of share more and get more involved and more hands on with other members than maybe you thought you would happen there? I don’t know if you had a different experience than what you thought coming in?
Andrew: Well, no. It’s great that everybody, you know, will just open up their business, you know, to you that, you know, there’s nothing that is off limits, so to speak, from a, you know, from people opening their business and seeing what they’re doing and what you might can do differently or just taking a little nuggets from other people that are completely open to sharing any aspect and other business that you think, you know, could help you or help them. And, you know, everybody is just an open book, you know, and shows their hand instead of holding it close to the vest, which is, you know, big.
And I think it helps hold each other accountable too, in that, well, if, you know, you did this last quarter, and this quarter, it’s not as good. Well, what happened? What are you doing differently? And I think we need that as, you know, entrepreneurs and business owners instead of trying to figure it out ourselves. Having another fresh set of eyes to be able to look at your business and maybe some things that you can do to help that, and everybody helps each other in that regard.
Mike: Awesome. Awesome. Thanks for sharing. So what advice would you give, Andrew, to people that are listening right now that are new and they’re . . . you know, what happens sometimes is you kind of you said this interesting analogy of creating a gulf versus a bridge to help somebody achieve their goals. And I think, sometimes, people like, we talked about earlier, they’re like, “I want this but it seems so far off. Kind of along the lines of what we talked about here on the show today, what advice would you give somebody about how to, you know, I tell some of our students so like, “Man, don’t worry about A to Z. Like, get from A to B, maybe start thinking about C. But like, don’t get so far ahead of yourself, because it’s easy to give up when you’re like, “It seems unattainable.” What advice would you give to people to like think about this in terms of stepping stones to their path to freedom?
Andrew: I would think just, well, you definitely got to have resilience and you’ve got to be persistence. I mean, you got to be persistent. Because it’s easy to give up in this business because you do have ups and downs and obstacles. And I think with any small business, really, that there’s going to be times where you’re going to, you know, want to quit, do something else. I’ve definitely had those thoughts before. But, you know, I know why I’m doing it. So I think first is figuring out, you know, why you want to do it. If it’s just to make money, then you’re probably not going to last. I mean, if your primary goal is just to make money, which everybody likes to make money, but if that’s the only reason you’re doing it for, then you’re probably going to burn out. And you’re probably not going to, you know, stick with it. But if you have other reasons and why you’re passionate about it, that’s what’s gotten me through because I know why I’m doing it and that’s, you know, for me and my family. Really, more than anything, that’s the driving factor.
Mike: Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, that’s awesome.
Andrew: And if you don’t have a family, it’s okay, too. You’re doing it for yourself to help better yourself. But you just have to be resilient and persistent. And you know, in the beginning, my first deal was knocking on the door. My very first investment deal was I knocked on the door. And back then, I didn’t have, you know, there’s two, you have sweat equity, and then you have check equity. So back then, it was sweat equity. I was knocking on doors, going through the foreclosure, you know, sales and, you know, writing my bandit signs, putting them out with very small budget. You know, just staying persistent and consistent and not giving up. And eventually, you’ll get to a point where then you’re doing check equity where you’re just writing checks, and it just gets done.
Mike: Yeah, it’s like it’s like a stair step, right? We always talk about that. It’s like, get up to one or two a month, then you can bring on an ad man. Get to three, and you can bring on an acquisitions manager. It’s hard to see that vision of like, “I can’t just go build a team and have an office and all this stuff.” Unless you’re independently wealthy up front, it’s like, you got to hustle in the beginning a lot more than you’re probably going to have to hustle. It doesn’t mean that you won’t always work hard, but it’s just a different kind of work, right? Hopefully, you’ll get more to being a business owner than a job owner, right?
Andrew: Right. And I guess the other thing is probably that I did that I shouldn’t have and definitely don’t recommend at all. It’s like, when I get a big lick or, you know, a big deal, then I would just coast, right? I’d goof off, because, “Hey, I got all this money. And now I can just, you know, hang out and not, you know.” And then when I started running . . .
Mike:Yeah, take it easy the next month.
Andrew:Right, take it easy for the next month or travel, whatever, and that’s fine. But when I would do that, and then you’d have to get back on the horse and go make more money, well, you’ve already lost all that momentum. So if you, you know, make that big chunk of money that month, and you decide to take the month off, well, you know, God bless you for that. But then you’ve lost a month, right? So it’s going to take you even longer to get back to where you’re consistently, you know, bringing that kind of money in. And you know, before that was probably one of my definitely downfalls early on was, yeah, I’d make a big chunk of money then, you know, I’d goof off for a month, right? And then I had to get back and then it just takes so much more to get your momentum back.
Mike: Yeah. And that’s one of the benefits of growing and having a team, right?
Andrew: Yes.
Mike: It’s like, even if you want to goof off a little bit here and there and you want to go travel for a couple weeks, the machine still working while you’re away.
Andrew: Yes, yes. No, that definitely is and but you got to, but like you said, you got to stair step it. So, you know, hey, hindsight is 20/20. I’m 43 now and I see some guys in our groups and they’re in their like mid-20s, late-20s. Oh my gosh, I wish I would have, you know, been that. I wish I would have, you know, been that disciplined or then but now. But, hey, you can’t saw sawdust, right?
Mike: That’s not how life works. That’s right.
Andrew: Right.
Mike: Andrew, hey, if folks wanted to connect with you and learn more about you or something, where would they go?
Andrew: I’ll just tell me reach out to me on Facebook. Andrew Graham, Davidson, North Carolina, which is right outside of Charlotte. Hit me up on Facebook.
Mike: Cool. We’ll add a link down on the show notes.
Andrew: Yeah, absolutely. That will be great.
Mike: Awesome. Awesome. Well, thanks for sharing your story and some lessons today. I think there’s some great nuggets in here for people that are listening about how to just get out of the gate and like you said, have that resilience to just kind of keep working hard and persistence to kind of keep moving forward and not give up because it’s harder earlier on, and it never gets easy, but it gets easier, right?
Andrew: It gets easier. And it’s like you said, it is harder early on. But if you stick with it, because, you know, I guess from an universal standpoint, you’re going to have just the universe fighting you on that. And you’ve just got to get through that before you see the other side. Because it’s not going to be easy until you decide that, you know, you’re going to push through, then life will stop pushing back and say, “Hey, let’s get out of this guy’s way, right?”
Mike: Yep, yep. The fact of the matter is, it’s human nature for your mind to trick you into staying safe, right? It kind of goes back to prehistoric days, “Don’t go walk around outside of the cave because the dinosaur might eat you, right?” Now, it’s your mind might convince you to just stay in bed because driving in a car is dangerous or, you know, whatever. It’s like, but that’s not fun, and that’s not a life worth living, right? So you have to like mentally condition yourself to keep pushing forward, even if you all of a sudden you build this amazing business, it’s like and then go compare yourself to Elon Musk, or, you know, Jeff Bezos or something like, “I’m like a peanut, you know.”
Andrew: Right.
Mike: You know, not that you have to be any of those people. But it inspires me. It’s like, “Man, I’ve built something awesome here. But this is nothing compared to what can be attained.” And it’s just at some point, it just becomes a game, right? As long as you enjoy what you’re doing.
Andrew: Right, and then it goes back to what we spoke of earlier. If you wanted to do that, you know how to do it in the sense of, “Hey, I got to sell something before anything else happens.”
Mike: Right.
Andrew: And then I got operations and then I got, you know, financial. And that’s basically the backbone to any business and once, you know, learn that, you can pretty much enter that into any format.
Mike: It’s just a matter of scale at that point, right?
Andrew: Scale. Right, yeah. How big do you want to grow it? And how big do you want it into and that this is your lifestyle decision, so absolutely.
Mike: Yeah. Awesome. Well, Andrew, thanks again for sharing your story with us. We definitely appreciate it.
Andrew: Oh, thank you, Mike. I appreciate you, bud.
Mike: Yeah, awesome.
Hey, everybody. This is episode number 468 with Andrew Graham. For those of you that have subscribed and left positive reviews on the podcast, whether it’s on iTunes, Stitcher, Google Play, YouTube, anywhere where we syndicate our content out or even, of course, just watching it on FlipNerd, we appreciate it. And if you haven’t done that yet, if you could subscribe and give us some love, we’d sure appreciate it. 468 episodes, we’re going to keep them coming at you. So we’ll see you guys on the next one. Until then, keep on fighting for freedom. See you on the next show.
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